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Post by maat on Dec 22, 2008 0:06:41 GMT
I have seen a Sufi book printed entirely in green ink. It was about Noah and the Ark of the Covenant.
Maat
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Post by vajranagini on Dec 25, 2008 3:18:08 GMT
The colour green is significant to Sufis because of the Green One, Khidr, who is the "patron saint" of Sufi. Here are two Sufi stories about Khidr; the one with Moses in it is my favourite:
A Meeting with Khidr
Once, while standing on the bank of the Oxus River, I saw a man fall in. Another man, in the patchwork robe of a dervish, came running to help him, only to be dragged into the current himself. Then, from nowhere, a third man, dressed in a robe of shimmering, luminous green, hurled himself into the water as well. But as he struck the surface of the water his form seemed to change: he was no longer a man, but a log. This the two men were able to cling to, and work it back towards the bank. Hardly able to believe what I was seeing, I followed at a distance, using the bushes as cover. The men were drawing themselves up on the bank exhausted and panting, the log floated away. I followed it, still hiding in the bushes. Out of sight of the two men it drifted towards the bank, and the green-robed man, soaked and sodden, dragged himself ashore. The water began to stream from his robe; before I reached him he was almost dry. I threw myself on the ground in front of him, crying,’You must be the Presence Khidr, the Green One, the Master of the Saints. Bless me, for I would attain!’ I was afraid to touch his robe, because it seemed to be of green fire. He said, ‘You have seen too much. Understand that I come from another realm, and am, without their knowing it, protecting those who have service to perform. You may have been a disciple of Mansur-el-Hallaj, but you are not mature enough to understand what we are doing for the sake of God’ Thus saying, there was a rushing sound in the air and he was gone before I could look up. After coming back from Khotan, I saw the same man. He was lying on a straw mattress in a rest-house near Peshawar. I said to myself, ‘If I was too raw last time, this time I will be mature’ I took hold of his robe, which was a very common one, -though underneath it I thought I saw something glow green. “You may be Khidr,’I said to him,’but I have to know how an apparently ordinary man like you performs these wonders….and why! Explain your craft to me, so I can practice it too!’ He laughed.’You are impetuous, my friend! The last time you were too headstrong-and now you are still too headstrong! Go on, tell everyone you’ve met Khidr Elias; they’ll put you in the madhouse, and the more you protest you’re right the more heavily they’ll chain you.’ He took out a small stone and showed it me. I stared at it-and found myself absolutely turned to stone until he had picked up his saddlebags and walked away. When I tell this story, people either laugh, or, thinking me a storyteller, give me presents.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
This story is an excerpt from the book “Saturday’s Child: Encounters with the Dark Gods”by Janet O. Dallet, a Jungian psychiatrist. A powerful book and one I highly recommend for people trying to come to terms with the Dark Face of the Divine.
"...In any case it is rarely easy to be sure whether a thing is more good than evil except in hindsight.What appears to be good on the surface often comes from bad motives and has bad effects. Last week, for instance, I sat in my office and heard a mother beg her distressed son to let her help him. In the next breath,she informed the young man, who was in his early twenties, what she required in return for the financial aid she thrust upon him. Getting rid of his black girlfriend was first on the list. To everyone but the mother it was obvious that the “help” she saw as entirely benevolent was a desperate and shabby attempt to control her son’s life.
By the same token, good is often hidden behind what appears to be evil. Jung tells a story from the Koran, in which Moses and his servant Joshua ben Nun meet Khidr, an immortal who symbolizes the Self. Moses asks to follow Khidr. The tale continues with the immortal’s response: “You will not bear with me, because you will be unable to bear with patience the things you do not comprehend.” Moses replied confidently, “If Allah wills, I shall be possessed with patience. I shall not in any wise disobey you.” Khidr shook his head. “Then if you are bent on following me, you must never at any time question any action I shall make until I shall choose to speak to you concerning it” Then they set forth, and embarked on to a fishing boat. Moments after boarding the ship, Moses followed Khidr down into the bowels of the vessel, where he proceeded to bore a hole through the bottom of the boat, and water immediately began to flow in. Moses exclaimed, “What are you doing? Would you drown us all?” Khidr looked at him. “Did I not say you would not bear with me?” he asked. Moses looked abashed. “I forgot my promise. Please forgive me.” and was silent.
They journeyed onwards and fell in with a young man one evening on the way to the caravanserai. Khidr killed him and left his body in an alley as though he had been attacked by robbers. Moses, horrified at this demanded to know: “ Why did you kill that innocent man, who has done no harm. Surely this is a wicked crime you have committed!” Khidr did not look round but said “Did I not tell you that you would not bear with me?”
Moses was abashed. “ If I should question you again, please abandon me, I should deserve it!”
They travelled on to the next city, where they requested hospitality from the people ther, but were denied. As they made their way along, they came to a wall that was falling down and collapsed in places. Khidr started placing the bricks back into the wall, and soon the wall was almost as good as new. Then they resumed their journey. Moses could not remain silent and he spoke “You could have demanded money for the repair of that wall from its owners.”
Khidr stopped. “And now, the time has come when we must part, since despite your words you are unable to abide in patience what you do not understand. However, before I go, I will explain those actions of mine which you witnessed.
"Know, then, that the ship in which we sailed was about to fall prey to a king who followed in our rear, who is seizing all seaworthy vessels by force. The poor fishermen who own the boat will now keep their vessel thanks to the hole I drilled in its hull."
"As for the youth I killed, he is an evil and dissolute youth who is plaguing his parents, who are true believers both, with his wickedness and disbelief. Now the family resources will pass to the other son, who shall grow up a righteous and filial young man."
"As for the wall, it belongs to two orphan boys in the city, whose father was an honest man. He buried a money chest beneath that wall, and the Lord has decreed that they should find it when they are grown to manhood. I repaired that wall lest another should inadvertently discover the treasure before that time. What I did was not by mere caprice. This is the greater meaning of those actions which you did not understand at the time."
And with that, Khidr disappeared, leaving Moses and his servant standing alone.
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Post by paulh on Dec 25, 2008 3:45:00 GMT
So why is Khidr green?
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Post by vajranagini on Dec 26, 2008 3:49:21 GMT
I don't know; maybe if there is a Sufi on this board they can tell us. I do know the colour green is particularly revered by the Muslims, and there is a whole body of legend about the Green Man. It is a fact that gold actually leans toward the green end of the spectrum, so there may be a connection with the Sun/Tiphareth. Green is the colour associated with the Archangel Uriel, who was the instructor of Enoch.
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Post by paulh on Dec 26, 2008 4:41:22 GMT
Perhaps green is the colour of the heart
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Post by maat on Jan 13, 2009 23:39:03 GMT
I have seen the priest and altar at some services surrounded in a green colour. I have always assumed that it was to do with the Astral world. ?
I sense that the healing energy is green also, but healing energy is usually associated with Raphael. ?
Maat
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Post by paulh on Jan 14, 2009 5:29:13 GMT
I have seen the priest and altar at some services surrounded in a green colour. There are many greens - veiling different qualities In the case of the heart, a new leaf green is good - light, clear, vibrant.
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Post by maximus on Jan 14, 2009 14:16:56 GMT
There are many greens - veiling different qualities Greens are high in vitaman content, and keep your bowels regular. I like collard greens seasoned with bacon. ;D
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Post by lauderdale on Jan 14, 2009 17:47:18 GMT
I don't eat greens, can't stand them! I am NOT into vegetables, salads etc, but I am very much a carnivore. As far as I am concerned, feed the veg to the Rabbits and eat a Rabbit Pie!
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Post by maat on Jan 14, 2009 22:35:02 GMT
I don't eat greens, can't stand them! I am NOT into vegetables, salads etc, but I am very much a carnivore. As far as I am concerned, feed the veg to the Rabbits and eat a Rabbit Pie! Now I am starting to understand your stance on the death penalty. That has made me interested to see the results of any study done on how what you eat can affect one's outlook on life. Maat
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Post by lauderdale on Jan 15, 2009 5:30:31 GMT
Bro Maat, this is rubbish, another piece of the modern psychobable that one us deluged by day and daily.
My views on such matters as Capital Punishment (for), Abortion (for) , Euthanasia (for), stem cell research (for) , the concept of a "just war" (for) are political in origin and formed from my personal consideration of such matters, not what I eat.
Oh and by the way Adolf Hitler was a teatotal vegetarian.
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Post by maximus on Jan 15, 2009 15:39:48 GMT
Oh and by the way Adolf Hitler was a teatotal vegetarian. And was a supporter of the Ecology movement. In fact the Germans were big Eco-Wackos - "Blood and Land" and all that. What you eat has no effect on what you think, unless you are starving to death. Your opinion's should be arrived at through rational consideration of the evidence. ...unless you believe that your thoughts are put in your head from outside entities, like some on here have postulated (and provided no proof of).
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Post by lauderdale on Jan 15, 2009 19:12:33 GMT
"And was a supporter of the Ecology movement"
I am also a staunch opponent of the Greenie Meanies and the Eco-loonies , rejecting their Global Warming myth.
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Post by maximus on Jan 15, 2009 20:39:22 GMT
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Post by maat on Jan 15, 2009 23:10:12 GMT
What you eat has no effect on what you think, unless you are starving to death. Your opinion's should be arrived at through rational consideration of the evidence. Hi Max Who put that thought into your head...? if you look back to my post you will see it was not an opinion, I remarked that I would be interested to find out if there had been any studies done and what conclusions were drawn. I do know that what you eat can affect the way you stand, sit, lie, move. It can affect if you live, how long you live, what quality of life you live. It can also kill you. What you eat or drink can affect the mind, coffee, alcohol, chocolate etc. Students know not to eat much before an important exam so that the mind remains clear. Stress causes many people to overeat... stress originates in the mind. Some mushrooms are so powerful that people donate their minds and sometimes die for them. We won't go into drugs. Alcohol can make folk love the world or want to punch its lights out. After considering just the obvious evidence I see I have cause to think that maybe what we eat does affect how we think. Maat
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Post by maat on Jan 15, 2009 23:18:51 GMT
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Post by lauderdale on Jan 16, 2009 5:32:15 GMT
" Students know not to eat much before an important exam so that the mind remains clear."
Really? I was always told to ensure that I had eaten before an exam as I needed energy at such a time. In my experience many students don't eat at such a time owung to nerves giving them nausea, the trots etc.
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Post by lauderdale on Jan 16, 2009 5:48:51 GMT
With the exception of Lord Dowding who did great work as leader of the RAF at the Battle of Britain , I am singularly unimpressed by that list. Some of the usual suspects and others I have never even heard of. I saw the name of Steve Jobs of Apple fame (I prefer PCs / Windows myself) and could not help but think that he is currently rather ill so I wonder just how helpful a vegetarian diet has been for him.
If people want to follow such a diet, good luck to them. What I object to is when they proselytise and moralise about it to me as I have found too many Vegetarians are inclined to do. I do not go on and on about my eating Steak or Bacon, Chicken etc, I simply get on with it and eat and enjoy it. I will have a little smile as I eat my breakfast in the canteen at work later this morning, Bacon, Sausages, two pieces of white toast and a cup of coffee.
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Post by maat on Jan 16, 2009 5:59:41 GMT
" Students know not to eat much before an important exam so that the mind remains clear."Really? I was always told to ensure that I had eaten before an exam as I needed energy at such a time. In my experience many students don't eat at such a time owung to nerves giving them nausea, the trots etc. I should have emphasised the words 'not to eat much' as in 'eat only a light meal'. To refrain from eating a large meal before an exam is not the same as fasting. Sorry my language skills are wanting. Maat
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