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Post by whistler on Feb 2, 2009 9:31:02 GMT
Verb Sap - may be. The fundamental question I presented - is just Like our Masonic rituals and symbolism. As you peel back the layers you eventually get to a point where a tricky road Block appears. No matter what you might say it is a fact that as a Specie We are humans and are on the earth. Now we can plow back through Max's Scientific route, a Religions creation Legends, or some other way. - Regardless there must have been a point in History when humans, were not on Planet earth. Should the actual cause of that arrival be known - Wonder how many of today's Creation truths would become just another lore. We learn in the 2nd degree how important it is to have the freedom of mind to explore just such challenging subjects
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Post by paulh on Feb 2, 2009 10:17:00 GMT
As you peel back the layers you eventually get to a point where a tricky road Block appears. I found Lloyd Pye's intervention theory most enlightening www.lloydpye.com/
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Post by maximus on Feb 2, 2009 16:11:39 GMT
Regardless there must have been a point in History when humans, were not on Planet earth. Yes, for most of Earth's existance. But we need not presume alien intervention or some such. Is' it not possible that we naturally evolved here, and that all we have and know is as a result of our own effort's? We are encouraged to the study of the seven Liberal Arts and Sciences, to enable us to develop the proper tools to enable us to think for ourselves. An educated, independant mind can not be enslaved, either by man or dogma.
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Post by whistler on Feb 2, 2009 21:27:49 GMT
Good Reply Max Is' it not possible that we naturally evolved here, and that all we have and know is as a result of our own effort's? That adds to the list of possibilities. Which is just as valid as the three I listed. But we need not presume alien intervention or some such. I am sure you are aware of plant seeds or even small insects, get carried along in the upper atmosphere, then dropped miles from their origin, then live and grow in their new environment. Is it not possible that the seeds of the Human Specie may have arrived with the dust of a Meteor from out in space in the same way. An educated, independant mind can not be enslaved, either by man or dogma. which is exactly why we are free to apply our intuition to problems of the origins of our Species
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Post by maat on Feb 2, 2009 21:52:06 GMT
An educated, independent mind can not be enslaved, either by man or dogma. One could actually argue that formal education is a form of mind enslavement... took me years to see round what the nuns taught me as school. Today we see scientists stymied because they base their research on 'accepted' premises which may prove to be in error in the future. I am remembering a recent occurrence here in Australia re a heart transplant. Despite all doctors efforts to conform with established procedures re maintaining the recipient's blood type and doing what they usually do to prevent tissue rejection ... the heart had the upper hand and changed the recipients blood type to that of the donor!!! And all went well. They are now scratching their heads and planning a whole new line of research. Education is good - open mind is good - discrimination is good and always remember that out of the mouths of babes and fools... life sure is interesting Maat
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Post by paulh on Feb 2, 2009 23:34:16 GMT
An educated, independent mind can not be enslaved, either by man or dogma. Quite so But how does the mind know that it is educated rather than (en)trained? How does the mind test that it is independent? Ask itself? Would the answer be dogma? Gk. dogma (gen. dogmatos) "opinion, tenet," lit. "that which one thinks is true," from dokein "to seem good, think" How does the mind demonstrate that it is not enslaved? Ask its enslaver? Are there more entities than Man that can enslave minds? Is it time for the red pill?
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Post by maximus on Feb 3, 2009 1:05:11 GMT
But how does the mind know that it is educated rather than (en)trained? “Knowledge” is a mental grasp of a fact(s) of reality, reached either by perceptual observation or by a process of reason based on perceptual observation.
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Post by paulh on Feb 3, 2009 1:42:17 GMT
Max
I am not sure you answered even one of my questions.
Perhaps you could take them one at a time - just to be sure
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Post by Azaziel on Feb 3, 2009 5:52:20 GMT
Im with maximus on this, if a continent had 64 million people, there should be lots of evidence, and people as advanced as you say would have forseen and predicated their fate and taken steps to ensure their surival In the past 50 years 99,820,000 people (just counting the largish statistics) have been exterminated.... by their fellow man, who is much less powerful than nature at is 'worst'. www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/ssrg/misc/misery.htmlDid you notice? Did you know about this, what with our modern forms of communication? Could our technology have prevented cyclone Katrina or the tsunami in Indonesia? Indonesia has a population of 237,000,000 and it is unstable - tsunamis, earthquakes, active volcanoes... remember Krakatoa, which exploded in 1883 with a force 13,000 times that of the atomic bomb used at Hiroshima. If the very worst happened there would people a millenium or ten later know they ever existed? Maat I think you have just reinforced my argument, take katrinia, steps were taken, they knew it was coming, but we do remember krakatoa of 1883, even the one around 600ad which was hugely more powerful, and we have the ability to warn people of tsunamis etc
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Post by whistler on Feb 3, 2009 8:05:30 GMT
Max I am not sure you answered even one of my questions. Perhaps you could take them one at a time - just to be sure Paul This mind you talk about, are you sure just what it is. When our physical body ceases to function and somebody buries or burns it. What happens to the mind. The mind could well be the depository of all our experiences and all our wisdom from all our life times. When we are having a lifetime this "mind" slowly begins to remember all those things. So is it trained - no I think not . Our lesson is always to apply discernment and discrimination ( Now those are Masonic Royal Arch concepts) as we awaken our memories. When you see somebody with great skills - like Mozart's skills from an early age, or the Buddhist Monk, who lead people to his false teeth he left in a cabinet in a previous life - does that information live in the physical gray flesh we call the brain - It may well reside in the Aura - or ethric body and the gray flesh just a communicator with that physically externally stored information. What I am saying is that when you let your mind ponder beyond written dogma How does the mind demonstrate that it is not enslaved? Ask its enslaver?
becomes a far reaching question. My answer is the mind is enslaved by our own higher self
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Post by maat on Feb 3, 2009 23:59:38 GMT
In the past 50 years 99,820,000 people (just counting the largish statistics) have been exterminated.... by their fellow man, who is much less powerful than nature at is 'worst'. www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/ssrg/misc/misery.htmlDid you notice? Did you know about this, what with our modern forms of communication? Could our technology have prevented cyclone Katrina or the tsunami in Indonesia? Indonesia has a population of 237,000,000 and it is unstable - tsunamis, earthquakes, active volcanoes... remember Krakatoa, which exploded in 1883 with a force 13,000 times that of the atomic bomb used at Hiroshima. If the very worst happened there would people a millenium or ten later know they ever existed? Maat I think you have just reinforced my argument, take katrinia, steps were taken, they knew it was coming, but we do remember krakatoa of 1883, even the one around 600ad which was hugely more powerful, and we have the ability to warn people of tsunamis etc 600 AD is less than 1500 years ago... a matter of minutes compared to the age of the Earth. If a comet hits (and/or we undergo another worldwide flood, the Earth tilts on its axis or we have another unknown event similar to that which obliterated the dinosaurs etc) would we find evidence of a Krakatoa or Katrina or Hiroshima or even the unfortunate continent where it lands? Maat
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Post by Azaziel on Feb 4, 2009 8:50:57 GMT
I think you have just reinforced my argument, take katrinia, steps were taken, they knew it was coming, but we do remember krakatoa of 1883, even the one around 600ad which was hugely more powerful, and we have the ability to warn people of tsunamis etc 600 AD is less than 1500 years ago... a matter of minutes compared to the age of the Earth. If a comet hits (and/or we undergo another worldwide flood, the Earth tilts on its axis or we have another unknown event similar to that which obliterated the dinosaurs etc) would we find evidence of a Krakatoa or Katrina or Hiroshima or even the unfortunate continent where it lands? Maat Take the Dinosaurs, they were supposedly wiped out 65 million yo, but we have the evidence of them being here, and yes if a big enough comet hits we are no more, but until then we will agree to disagree
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Post by maat on Feb 4, 2009 22:20:24 GMT
I can't prove to you that even billions of things can disappear without trace, because there is no trace of them ;D Win/Win situation. Maat
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