imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Feb 10, 2009 5:39:19 GMT
This is very true, Bro. Arch, especially the "entitled" part.
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Post by maat on Feb 10, 2009 5:44:49 GMT
Everyone here would be delighted to see you join Freemasonry. No - I would not be happy to see this young person join my lodge or even my order at the present time. Someone who takes offence so readily when none is/was intended will not take kindly to the information provided by Freemasonry. Better to wait for a time when the ears and the eyes see more clearly. Maat
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Post by lynn1 on Feb 10, 2009 7:31:26 GMT
Hold Up! I ask one question! How in world did this get to be about my scene of entitlement. It is clear that no one is reading my post. So I am not ready to get off my horse just yet bill. Because first of all I said I was going to check it. My uncle told me that co-masonry is not really masonry and that is why I wanted to look in to it first before I make a move. So emailed the American co-masonry grand lodge. They responded but they did not answer my question so I come to this forum for help. I did get my help from corab, Who I was happily waiting on. I come back to the forum checking out others post when I look at my post and see miss imakegarb over here recommending her patience which was not needed. Then she has the right to PM me to tell me what to do and how to do it. Now maat I did not mean to insult but you gotta know when to jump in and when to step back. But it appears that you have already pasted judgment on me. Sense architekt over here is asking all these interview questions right now. I'll answer them now. Why did I want to join? The same reason others probably joined I wanted to help others. What was I going to gain? A group of well mind friends who had my back when I needed the help. What do I know about freemasonry? I know as much as nonmember wanting to join. I have read books, surfed the Internet and talked to my uncle many times. I came to this forum for help and only one person was willing to do that. It just goes to show you how many people have truly reach the light and how many are standing far away from it just looking at it.
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Post by corab on Feb 10, 2009 12:42:35 GMT
Lynn,
All things being well you should hear from our American Federation shortly.
Meanwhile, I would encourage you to think before you react. These people here, fine Brothers all, have no ill intentions towards you.
I know where you're coming from, and trust me -- and them -- more of this will come your way if and when you do enter freemasonry. Whilst we may not find the method comforting, being told what we do not like to hear actually acts as a working tool -- if we are prepared to engage with it.
No one ever said freemasonry was an easy way of life.
Let me know when you hear from the American Federation, please.
Meanwhile ... chill out. You have nothing to prove to us.
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Post by lynn1 on Feb 10, 2009 13:26:40 GMT
Once again thank you for your help Cora. But I do think before I react. I know that some of these people are not trying to be ill towards me. It only started when person told me patience which was not necessary because I was OK waiting for you. Then It got to be little personal. Thats were I draw the line. I know freemasonry isn't a easy way at life and I'll be sure to let you know when I hear from the American Federation. In the meant time I'll chill out. Oh by the way I saw your picture you look very nice.
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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 10, 2009 13:27:24 GMT
Lynn I believe in equality, which means if you behave like a dipstick I am going to say so , makes no difference if you are a man or a woman , if you are old or young.
The people here who have answered , or tried to answer you and have tried to engage in conversation with you, I would say they have, I guess, about 150 years of experience of Freemasonry in all its forms.
You would not tap into that much experience anywhere else. But all you see is insult and injury, I think it is you who should start to judge when to jump in and when to step back.
Now if you are as smart as you think you are, you will understand I am trying to teach you something very important by being blunt. The rest is up to you.
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Post by lynn1 on Feb 10, 2009 17:16:42 GMT
Well bill maybe you don't know the difference because I just step back this morning but appears I have to jump back in. When I asked my question the first answer was just what I wanted. Then one person tells me am being impatience and some else backs them up. Then It got a little personal which was way out of line. Then this person PMs me telling me that am sneaking around which I am not trying to do. Then this person comes off like they know me trying to tell what to do. You not can tell a person what to do because first of all you don't know this person situation. You don't know what this person limits are. And I don't take ever thing as an insult or injury. It just seems that no one is trying look at this entire thing my way. The rest of it you can keep!
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Post by maximus on Feb 10, 2009 17:53:17 GMT
Well bill maybe you don't know the difference because I just step back this morning but appears I have to jump back in. Actually, it appears you are exacerbating the situation. Are you only open to suggestions if it is what you wish to hear? Do you think perhaps you gave the impression of impatience by your own words? Do you think perhaps, again, this may have been in reaction to the tone in your posts? Not being privy to a private conversation, we have no way to judge the accuracy of this statement. If the originator of the PM is who I suspect, I believe you are reading more into what was said than was intended. I often hear young people, especially girls, use the emphasized part of your sentence as a comeback in reaction to thier being precieved as young. It is a defensive reaction that tends to confirm the inexperience of the individual who uses it. Again, stridently defensive. Your next sentence belies this one. Communication is a two-way street. It is difficult, if not impossible, to communicate if one party to the conversation acts defensively. The people here have only wished to assist you, but you have twisted thier words into some sort of personal attack, when no such thing was intended. The council of patience is not an insult, but, as has been pointed out, a Masonic virtue.
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Post by leonardo on Feb 10, 2009 18:52:04 GMT
Then this person PMs me telling me that am sneaking around which I am not trying to do. I find this difficult to believe for I know of no-one on this forum who'd write in such a manner.
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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 10, 2009 19:01:58 GMT
There are people who just dont give a dam, they when asked a question will just not answer, make a joke of your question or just tell you to go away.
There are people who care, they will try to engage you in conversation, ask you more about your question, try to suggest ways in which you may get to the answer to your question.
Maybe Lynn you have only been used to people who just don't care ?
If you decide to become a Freemason you will be tested over and over again. You will be the one doing the testing, I hope you will come to understand that the words that have been used here have been used by people who actually care about you and what we hope will be a bright and enlightening future for you.
I have always told my Sons and Daughter, now I tell my Grandkids, all 10 of them, life is a wonderful adventure, don't waste any of it on trivia. Reach out and experience everything, the bad as well as the good. Trust and that trust may or may not be returned, love knowing that love may or may not be returned. Better to experience the disapointment than to have never trusted or never loved.
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Post by lynn1 on Feb 10, 2009 20:43:40 GMT
Well, maximus if you read the one post I sent cora I was going to chill out until bill over here makes a remark that appears to be an awful comeback. I am open suggestions that are with in my limits. Do I seem impatience by my words. No, maximus I came back the forum to read other people's post when I see my question had another comment. Do I think that this may have been in reaction to the tone in your posts? Yes and no the question about my age and then the PM that was sent to me about me sneaking around. I couldn't answer some questions with getting to personal. Do I believe that reading into the PM that was sent, no because that was what the PM was titled. A defense reaction so you know my limitations!
Yes Leo someone write that in a PM to me and ti was also the titled to.
You know what bill I happen to agree with you on your last post. But not only do people do not care they only care for themselves.
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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 10, 2009 21:23:35 GMT
Then it is up to us to show that we care.
Yes I am good at the cutting remark, years of practice, but do me a favour and ask yourself why ?
We do have to be careful to remember when writing a comment on an open forum, that we do not have the benefit of the tone of the voice or the expression on the face. Sometimes what we write sounds to others far different to what we intended. We have to learn to wait to find out the real intentions behind the comment. Was this person trying to be smart, was he being serious and did he mean to hurt me. Or was he trying to teach me something from his/her years of experience.
Do I know something today that I did not know yesterday ?
What is Freemasonry ? it is that unending study of oneself.
And so the adventure turns another page.
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Post by maat on Feb 10, 2009 22:51:48 GMT
Most people DO CARE!
To see it all you have to do is to care for someone yourself, today. (then tell me what happens to you.)
Betcha can't do it, betcha can..
Maat
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FireMist
Member
Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Feb 11, 2009 1:11:35 GMT
Bro. Karen is correct . I also am a Freemason in the American Federation of Human Rights. I am in Columbus, Ohio and travel to the Detroit area for meetings......... I see that everyone has been ignoring you and that not a single person has anwered your question. What a shame. I suppose we are just an ignorant lot. Thanks for letting me know, I thought your question was answered by myself and others quite well. I'm sure we will be certain to be more clear in our communications next time around. It has been posted above and is quite true. Patience is a Masonic virtue, and one of your first tests. Good luck to you.
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Post by lynn1 on Feb 11, 2009 7:13:54 GMT
architekt I did not say I was going to join anytime soon all I said was I was going to check it out. I don't know how far the lodge is going to be. I don't even know how much it's going to cost. Look all I wanted to do is check it because for all I know co-masonry could just be a bad model from the original one. I don't even know if I could join in the summer time because of these reasons. I kind of find it a little offense that you say I am to young to join and would bring disharmony to the lodge because I see pictures of young men and older men standing together and it looks like they get along just fine. I've also read some articles about young men joining around there early twenties. So when young man comes of age around eighteen, early twenties he has the ability to join at this time and any other time he wants but I don't. I should make that decision on my own not you. I can't not believe that I would be viewed as a disadvantage. All the new members in a mainline male lodge young or older would be viewed as good asset but only because of an increase in membership. And I would bring no harmony and would be a disadvantage. I seriously thought that freemasonry was about fellowship no matter you're age or religion or race or thing else for that matter.
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Post by corab on Feb 11, 2009 13:14:10 GMT
Let me tell you all a story.
Three years ago today I was initiated into freemasonry. What a 3 years it has been ..!
Very soon after my initiation my internet activities were picked up on, and I was hauled up sharpishly and repeatedly on my transgressions. It was a harsh way of learning, but from that, many wonderful things came forth. It was through this that I would find my life-long mentor, master and friend, and through her ceaseless patience and corrections of my irregularities I would grow to what and where I am now.
I was a right royal pain in the backside, and rallied against her -- and others, as some of you will recall -- all through my first 2 years months in the craft, making my life and that of others less than pleasant. I had not the understanding to see that the harsh comments, the strict rules and regulations, the unceasing correction were all intended to facilitate my learning.
Is this going anywhere? Sure is.
This thread, at this point in time, has become emotionally charged because on both sides of the discussion values and beliefs are believed to have been challenged. I am no moderator, but I believe it would be beneficial if we all took just one short step back.
Lynn, the questions you have been asked here have been genuine and valid. One of the most difficult but most valuable things I have learnt in the past three years is to bite my tongue when I feel I am being unreasonably corrected. Nine times out of ten I find I was wrong, and the correction was entirely justified. I began to grasp that, and work like that, less than 4 months ago, so that should give you an idea of time scales ... and how darn difficult it is! But that's what it is about. It's about taking the raw material of ourselves and shaping it into something fit to take its place in the Temple of Humanity. That takes a lot of scrutinising for imperfections, and the ability and willingness to look at ourselves through the eyes of others.
It ain't easy, but it's worth it.
Brn:., I understand your sentiments, but truly: we may rest assured that whatever lodge Lynn choses to apply to will conduct a careful interview, as all lodges should, and give all due care and attention to arriving at the appropriate decision.
S&F,
Cora
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Post by lynn1 on Feb 11, 2009 17:47:56 GMT
Your, right Cora values and beliefs have been challenged and it was not my intention for this to happen but I am going take a step back now. This whole argument has left me stress out and a little tired. The story you told is very good and I know that if I did join it is not going to be an easy road. I also would admit that I have little bad habits that am willing to get rid of by learning from my mistakes. I also would be willing to learn the ability to take a look at myself through the eyes of others. I just hope they get to know me before judging me. It is worth it!
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FireMist
Member
Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Feb 11, 2009 19:20:39 GMT
Well said brother to be. I think I missed seeing your introduction post, so I'll say it here; Welcome to the board. It is indeed a long road, one that IS worth it!
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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 11, 2009 20:23:47 GMT
Yes Cora you were a pain in the proverbial, but look how well you turned out.
There is a certain cut and thrust on most public forum.
Lynn, I would not like for you to withdraw from discussions, if you think your opinion is right then say so. There is a lot to be seen and heard of these boards, some good, some bad, some silly, some sad. Just because I or others are well versed in the action of this cut and thrust , does not mean we are always right.
Unlike Cora I am right 9 times out of 10 ;D it is a curse I have learned to live with.
Learning and understanding is part of the great adventure.
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Post by corab on Feb 11, 2009 21:10:42 GMT
Well said, Lynn -- that's what I'm talking about.
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