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Post by lynn1 on Feb 14, 2009 21:50:32 GMT
Well basically I wanted to known more about the reasons why the American co-masonry, the eastern order of international co-masonry split form Le Droit Humain? I have read a little bit about it but there is not a lot of information on the web on this. I would also like to known where these organizations are mainly located in the US; east, west, north, or south? I would also like to say that the websites for the eastern order and the US website for le droit humain are in highly need for an update. The American co-masonry website is pretty good but, it has much more use for it's members than info for people who are interested. I think the best website goes to the le droit humain in the UK. The reason I am saying this is because mainline masonry has fantastic websites for information and location of there lodges. Which brings me to my last question is co-masonry authentic masonry?
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Post by lynn1 on Feb 14, 2009 23:13:58 GMT
What I mean is fake. When I find out about co-masonry I told my uncle about it. He never known that co-masonry even existed. When I explained to him what it was, he told me that it was not real masonry.
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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 14, 2009 23:27:03 GMT
Lynn, I will let others answer the Co Masonic question.
The problem we have in Freemasonry is that some obediences accept others some do not.
I am a UGLE Freemason, I can visit thousands of Lodges all over the world, but I can not visit a Co Masonic or Female only Lodge.
United Grand Lodge of England [UGLE] and all the other Grand Lodges in line with them, do not accept that Females can be initiated into Freemasonry.
Now this does not mean they can not call themselves Freemasons, all it means is we can not enter the same Lodge.
It is the same with other styles of Freemasonry, for example I can not visit a Lodge from The Grand Orient of France, they are a male Freemasonry but they accept females into their Lodges, so my Grand Lodge will not recognise them.
It is a very complicated set of circumstances.
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Post by lynn1 on Feb 15, 2009 0:26:40 GMT
I know bill. I came to that conclusion on my own. When I started to read about freemasonry in Europe. I also heard that even though main line masonry in England does not visit these mixed lodges or female lodges they still get along well.
I think that in the US some main line lodges still don't even know that co-masonry or even female masonry even exist.
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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 15, 2009 2:41:16 GMT
It is not Just the US, I have to explain to some of my Brothers that there are actually mixed gender Lodges, they look at me with a dazed expression.
They are , or at least most seem to know there are Lady Masons, because some of my Brothers Wives are.
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Post by maat on Feb 16, 2009 0:30:50 GMT
United Grand Lodge of England [UGLE] and all the other Grand Lodges in line with them, do not accept that Females can be initiated into Freemasonry. First ... can any ordinary, or extra ordinary, Freemason tell me why females cannot be initiated into Freemasonry? Tradition and personal preferences aside. The crippled and those whose skin was not whitish in colour were once kept outside Freemasonry also. As I said once before on this forum about 4 years ago. Two down, one to go. (My post was at that time deleted and I was delivered a stern personal message). But I was right, and I therefore am quite happy to say it again and again and again... Lets cut to the point - "all the other Grand Lodges" can only stay in line with UGLE because they look to UGLE to give them validity. Blackmail in other words. Question: What is different about a Grand Lodge with hundreds or thousands of members, all good men and true, whose hierarchy suddenly takes a decision to introduce women into the order and are excommunicated? Dirty rotten scoundrels all of a sudden, every one of them? REASON - says no. They are all still good men and true. There is nothing free about external Freemasonry - too many rules for that. I appreciate the genius of the system and technique of Freemasonry. I love it. It is my calling. And my eyes are open... HGW Maat
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Post by maat on Feb 16, 2009 0:32:24 GMT
Why am I thinking Joan of Arc right now... ;D Ah well...
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Post by maat on Feb 16, 2009 0:51:12 GMT
I can't see why a Grand Lodge does not have within the one organisation... a choice of men only lodges, women only lodges and mixed lodges. Free choice then - Each to his own.
Guess this isn't going to happen until a few more people find a few more missing words - Maat
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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 16, 2009 2:06:59 GMT
Maat, I was only answering a question.
How is a young Mason, or even a prospective Mason going to find out about Freemasonry if every time a question is asked someone launches into the, 'Why cant Females Join Male craft thing'.
Because that is the way it is, I did not make it so. No one here made it so. We can not make it different today. There is Male Craft, there is Female Craft and there is Co Masonry. What is wrong with that, you join the one that makes you happy.
I could just as easily ask why I cant join the Women Craft? because that is the way it is. And so it would roll on ad infinitum.
If someone asks why is a black cat black? ........... Because it is black.
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Post by maat on Feb 16, 2009 4:08:33 GMT
Because that is the way it is, I did not make it so. No one here made it so. We can not make it different today. Yes we can...
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Post by maat on Feb 16, 2009 4:15:53 GMT
Your are right Bill, maybe not the best thread to post on. I usually make a point of not coming to this section. I abhor segregation. Don't like the way some religions and spiritual practices make the women go to a separate area.
Which make me wonder why do you visit this area.. ??
Maat
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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 16, 2009 19:24:44 GMT
Tupperware, I was told I was not wanted at a Tupperware party.
Try getting into an 'Anne Summers' party, no chance.
While I agree with you in principle, in practice it just does not always work.
As you say, segregation has been with us since the dawn of time. It is still here very strong in Religious terms. It would be nice if we could all act as one with no prejudice, but as we seem to be incapable. I do not know what the answer is.
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imakegarb
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One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Feb 16, 2009 20:15:54 GMT
Y'know, Bro. Bill, I've never been to a Tupperware Party where there weren't male enthusiasts present. It was a while before I heard it was different elsewhere. But I don't go to THOSE Tupperware parties, so it was bound to take me a while to find out not all are so enlightened. That's the crowd I run with ;D Anyway, I'm one Co-Mason who isn't out to "change" anything in Freemasonry. Fact is, there are three branches in Freemasonry. There is Malecraft, Femalecraft and Mixed Masonry. And we know it can work that way largely because it does. No change required. Just some folks, who ought to already know better, really oughta open their eyes and see what already *is*. But if they don't, if they continue to deny it and engage in insults and name calling, that's OK. She continues as She is, not withstanding. It's their problem, not mine. As for this board, I, like Bro. Ma'at, sit on this edge of "the pit" with my legs dangling in but I tend to come no further than that. I don't like this board. Not one little bit. I make a point here once in a while but my every visit into "the pit", without exception, has been unpleasant. Clearly, this board is not for me. Of course, I'm a moderator here, so I have to look in on occasion. But, for the most part, I prefer to just ignore it. There are too many other wonderful places to be
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FireMist
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Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Feb 16, 2009 20:17:34 GMT
I only have a half of a clue as to what an Anne Summer's party is. I however have been to many Tupperware and Pampered Chef parties. In all cases, there were almost as many men as women in attendance. Perhaps it was the hostess's decision not to include women. I know this seems strange, but Avon, Tupperware actually encourage hostesses to invite couples and men. I believe Papered Chef and the Colonial Candles do too.
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imakegarb
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One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
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Post by imakegarb on Feb 16, 2009 20:26:02 GMT
Hmmmmm. I hadn't thought about Pampered Chef Bro. Bill, maybe you should seek out Mixed Gender Tupperware Parties and leave the single-gender Tupperware parties to be all segregated. After all, that seems to be what they want and I know harmony is very important in a Tupperware party. In your search for the Tupperware party that's right for you, you may encounter the truth: there are female-only Tupperware parties, there are male-only Tupperware parties and there are mixed-gender Tupperware parties. We know it can work that way largely because it does. Now just because the female-only Tupperware party you encountered said the other two types don't exist doesn't mean they're right or even that they're telling the truth. And Tupperware remains Tupperware, regardless. Bro. Bill, I'm so glad you brought this up ;D
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FireMist
Member
Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Feb 16, 2009 20:33:19 GMT
And every Tupperwaring Pampered Chef needs their tools to do a proper job of things. And I entirely agree with your comments. ............ Anyway, I'm one Co-Mason who isn't out to "change" anything in Freemasonry. Fact is, there are three branches in Freemasonry. There is Malecraft, Femalecraft and Mixed Masonry. And we know it can work that way largely because it does. No change required. Just some folks, who ought to already know better, really oughta open their eyes and see what already *is*. ..................
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imakegarb
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Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Feb 16, 2009 20:45:01 GMT
Well, speaking as a "speculative" Tupperwaring Pampered Chef, (as opposed to operative; I don't cook well). I inv*st those t*ols with a m*ral significance . . .
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Post by leonardo on Feb 16, 2009 21:05:10 GMT
And Tupperware remains Tupperware, regardless. Priceless
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Post by maat on Feb 16, 2009 21:57:50 GMT
Bill at a Tupperware party ... now that has set me up for the day ;D I like it! Maat (I would rather you than me ... )
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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 16, 2009 22:07:49 GMT
Exactly, who do Tupperware think they are.
Men have just as much right to crispy vegetables.
I would suggest you Google 'Anne Summers' !!
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