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Post by magusmasonica on Feb 24, 2010 2:21:27 GMT
I just get the benifit of totally ignoring your Masonic code. The best of both worlds. It's interesting to me that you would consider this a benefit. In my obedience, the Ob is what defines me as a Mason. Don't get me wrong, I really don't care about your practice; after all there are lots of groups that have no Ob. But to call it Masonry...well, I can see why many would object. I'm also a US Marine, another initiatic order. Lots of guys will say they're Marines, even though they've never been to bootcamp. Some other Marines make quite a sport of exposing these men, but personally I just let it go. Where did you get they we don't have obligations? I have never written that. I simply stated that we do not feel the need to follow codes of organizations we do not belong to therefor they have no jurisdictional control over what we do. The comparison of Freemasonry to the Marine Corps is a flawed one. The Marine Corps are a specific division governed and administrated by the US Navy. Freemasonry is made up of sovereign bodies who are only bound by and have jurisdiction over their individual memberships. Just as no individual speaks for Masonry no one organization have sole control over it. Love and Light,
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Post by bobash on Feb 24, 2010 13:54:21 GMT
I got the idea from your statement "I just get the benifit of totally ignoring your Masonic code".
I don't know about your pratices at all, nor do I particularly care since they are not Masonry by my defiinition.
Of course, I realize that your defininition of Masonry differs from mine (and the other 2M Regular Masons), and that's OK too. I'm sure that you have significant esoteric experiences and that you improve yourselves, as Masons do. It's simply not Masonry bu the definitions that matter to me and never will be. Personally I wish that you were involved in proper Masonry as the fraternity needs more thinking men, but alas you have chosen to ignore the Landmarks and so must stand outside. Best of luck in your endeavors Mr. Cofield.
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Post by billmcelligott on Feb 24, 2010 14:09:40 GMT
There are many and different Masonic codes. And many Orders.
But the principle that runs through them all is respect. It blesses him who gives as well as he who receives.
Respect in my opinion, should be earned and not given away with a breakfast cereal.
We do not do breakfast cereals here.
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Post by magusmasonica on Feb 24, 2010 18:24:09 GMT
I got the idea from your statement "I just get the benifit of totally ignoring your Masonic code". I don't know about your pratices at all, nor do I particularly care since they are not Masonry by my defiinition. Of course, I realize that your defininition of Masonry differs from mine (and the other 2M Regular Masons), and that's OK too. I'm sure that you have significant esoteric experiences and that you improve yourselves, as Masons do. It's simply not Masonry bu the definitions that matter to me and never will be. Personally I wish that you were involved in proper Masonry as the fraternity needs more thinking men, but alas you have chosen to ignore the Landmarks and so must stand outside. Best of luck in your endeavors Mr. Cofield. Thank you for the well wishes, they are sincerely appreciated. On another note I still don't get what you're still not getting. ;D A specific GL's Masonic Code is not the same thing as a ritual Obligation. I think you know that. My point was why should I follow the rules of a specific GL if I am not a member? In what universe does that make any sense? I am sure Bob that you pay no attention to MWGL PHA of OK Masonic Code because you are not a member of that GL. Make sense? Same scenario. I don't really want to get into your misuse of the term Regular as that has been rehashed a million times with little results. Your definition of "proper" Freemasonry is your own and has no reflection on me. It would be the same as a Catholic telling a Methodist he isn't a proper Christian. I doubt such a situation would have any effect on the Methodists worship. In Love and Light,
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 24, 2010 21:23:53 GMT
A specific GL's Masonic Code is not the same thing as a ritual Obligation. I think you know that. Well, Bro. Bobash had graciously said: Of course, I realize that your definition of Masonry differs from mine (and the other 2M Regular Masons), and that's OK too. The definition referred to is explicitly a personal one (albeit, informed and shared by others) it is not necessarily or even likely to be identical with that of a specific GL's Masonic Code. I think you know that.
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Post by magusmasonica on Feb 24, 2010 22:57:16 GMT
A specific GL's Masonic Code is not the same thing as a ritual Obligation. I think you know that. Well, Bro. Bobash had graciously said: Of course, I realize that your definition of Masonry differs from mine (and the other 2M Regular Masons), and that's OK too. The definition referred to is explicitly a personal one (albeit, informed and shared by others) it is not necessarily or even likely to be identical with that of a specific GL's Masonic Code. I think you know that. When made my point about not having to follow Happyzealot's Masonic Code being a benefit (to what Bob was referring) I meant exactly that. The Masonic Code of the GL of California, not a ritual obligation. I never mentioned a ritual obligation. I think you knew that already.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 25, 2010 21:01:56 GMT
Bro. Bobash explicitly stated his definition is a personal one (however informed) which happened to differ from yours. Moreover, he graciously said other definitions (implicitly including yours) are also OK. ITYKT
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Post by magusmasonica on Feb 25, 2010 21:24:31 GMT
Bro. Bobash explicitly stated his definition is a personal one (however informed) which happened to differ from yours. Moreover, he graciously said other definitions (implicitly including yours) are also OK. ITYKT Bob seemed to be under the impression that in my lodge we have no obligations. I am not sure how he came under this misunderstanding but I did clarify that is not what I have ever stated. We do have obligations and in fact I have zero problem writing out ritual obligation here. I am not sure why you have a problem with me clearing up a misconception. Love and Light,
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 25, 2010 22:56:46 GMT
I am not sure why you have a problem with me clearing up a misconception. What you read as a misconception (it ain't necessarily so) cannot be cleared up with misinformation. ITYKT
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Post by magusmasonica on Feb 25, 2010 23:17:23 GMT
I am not sure why you have a problem with me clearing up a misconception. What you read as a misconception (it ain't necessarily so) cannot be cleared up with misinformation. ITYKT He stated that I stated we have no obligations. This is wrong. Period. What "misinformation" am I spreading? Please enlighten me. Love and Light,
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Tamrin
Member
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 26, 2010 7:41:51 GMT
What you read as a misconception (it ain't necessarily so) cannot be cleared up with misinformation. ITYKT He stated that I stated we have no obligations. This is wrong. Period.
What "misinformation" am I spreading? Please enlighten me.That he stated that YOU have no obligations. ITYKT In my obedience, the Ob is what defines me as a Mason. Don't get me wrong, I really don't care about your practice; after all there are lots of groups that have no Ob. But to call it Masonry...well, I can see why many would object.
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Post by magusmasonica on Feb 26, 2010 7:45:23 GMT
He stated that I stated we have no obligations. This is wrong. Period.
What "misinformation" am I spreading? Please enlighten me. That he stated that YOU have no obligations. ITYKT In my obedience, the Ob is what defines me as a Mason. Don't get me wrong, I really don't care about your practice; after all there are lots of groups that have no Ob. But to call it Masonry...well, I can see why many would object. Then he is flat out wrong. I am under a Master Mason obligation and I have never once stated otherwise. I am getting more than a little tired of the constant spin. If you wanted to be nagative please keep it to yourself. Love and Light,
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Tamrin
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 26, 2010 8:03:33 GMT
That he stated that YOU have no obligations. ITYKT Then he is flat out wrong. I am under a Master Mason obligation and I have never once stated otherwise. I am getting more than a little tired of the constant spin. If you wanted to be nagative please keep it to yourself.
Love and Light,He did not say YOU were under no obligation. He referred to "lots of groups" having no Ob. This is like saying my obligation is different to yours, but thats fine as I'm even OK with those having none. ITYKT BTW, Great pun with the "nag[g]ative" - was it intentional? Bubble & Squeak
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Post by middlepillar on Feb 26, 2010 8:54:04 GMT
I deleted the last post by MM.
This is a discussion Forum, and Philip is challenging what you are saying, if you cannot argue succinctly please refrain from using bad language or rude notions
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Post by magusmasonica on Feb 26, 2010 8:56:52 GMT
I deleted the last post by MM. This is a discussion Forum, and Philip is challenging what you are saying, if you cannot argue succinctly please refrain from using bad language or rude notions Since when is none synonymous with different?
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Tamrin
Member
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 26, 2010 13:03:10 GMT
Since when is none synonymous with different? What is your point? By my reading, Bro. Bobash did not include YOU among the "lots of groups" having no Ob. His reference to such groups being OK (suggesting they were within his comfort zone), to me implies that those, such as YOU, with differing obligations to his, would even more readily be accommodated within that zone. He appeared to me to have expressed a gracious degree of tolerance and inclusion. He also frankly acknowledged his understanding of how others may and are entitled to form different opinions and object. Perhaps Bro. Bobash may please clarify matters.
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Post by bobash on Mar 3, 2010 17:54:21 GMT
This statement of yours is what led me to believe that you don't have an Obligation: I just get the benifit of totally ignoring your Masonic code. The best of both worlds. My apologies if I misinterpreted this statement, but perhaps you can see where I would have formed that conclusion. I certainly won't pretend to understand what your obedience is based upon, and I don't seek to belittle it. It's simply not Masonry by my definition.
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Post by bobash on Mar 3, 2010 18:02:00 GMT
The comparison of Freemasonry to the Marine Corps is a flawed one. You are correct here. If fake (or real) Marines made an online Bootcamp and turned out more fake Marines, then I guess it would be a better analogy. Now these fake Marines could be just as tough and skilled as real Marines, but they still wouldn't be Marines to me.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 3, 2010 18:39:01 GMT
Please be careful how you refer to 'Marines' I have seen many a major argument caused by disrespecting the Marines, please leave it there.
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Post by magusmasonica on Mar 4, 2010 0:18:39 GMT
The comparison of Freemasonry to the Marine Corps is a flawed one. You are correct here. If fake (or real) Marines made an online Bootcamp and turned out more fake Marines, then I guess it would be a better analogy. Now these fake Marines could be just as tough and skilled as real Marines, but they still wouldn't be Marines to me. Again, apples and oranges. The United States Department of Defense owns the Marine Corps. Your Grand Lodge does NOT own Freemasonry. Your opinions are what they are. They carry weight with you and more power to you, that does not mean that I need to regard them in any way however. My practice of Freemasonry along with my Brethren will be continued regardless. Love and Light,
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