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Post by maximus on Mar 25, 2009 19:21:58 GMT
It seems to me that it is not there now. If it is please confirm. If it is not then that begs questions. It is there, I have just read it. Could we please stop this crap and just discuss things worth discussing. It is this Forums Policy not to allow any attacks on any Grand Lodge. If this carries on I will interpret it as an unnecessary attack. Thank you MP.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 25, 2009 19:46:52 GMT
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vtmason
Member
Running Dog Lackey
Posts: 251
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Post by vtmason on Mar 25, 2009 20:50:50 GMT
It is there, I have just read it. Could we please stop this crap and just discuss things worth discussing. It is this Forums Policy not to allow any attacks on any Grand Lodge. If this carries on I will interpret it as an unnecessary attack. Well it is not easy to find. Could you not just have posted the link in your reply. It seems you are getting paranoid. What attacks are you talking about? Is asking a question now an attack? I would appreciate a mod. who is not biased. I'm just a visitor here like you friend, but it is bad business to question a mods integrity. Of course there is certain bias in certain situations, it their house. These people have been very patient with you.
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Post by middlepillar on Mar 25, 2009 21:15:24 GMT
It is there, I have just read it. Could we please stop this crap and just discuss things worth discussing. It is this Forums Policy not to allow any attacks on any Grand Lodge. If this carries on I will interpret it as an unnecessary attack. Well it is not easy to find. Could you not just have posted the link in your reply. It seems you are getting paranoid. What attacks are you talking about? Is asking a question now an attack? I would appreciate a mod. who is not biased. Bro Architekt If I had my way these two threads regarding GOUSA would be deleted. It is not and has never been this Forums policy to question the integrity of any Grand Lodge whether mainstream or not. It seems to me that you are taking a lead in continuing to bring to this Forums attention that which is against our policy. I am not saying you are doing it deliberately to stir the mix, unfortunately it has that effect. Now I can assure you I have absolutely no bias in this matter, I do however have the very personal opinion that Bro Brandt is a good Brother and he has answered all that he feels comfortably able to do. Knowing him as a man of integrity I am happy that he has answered in the way he has and I feel that these two topics have run their course. I have noticed that you are starting to upset quite a few members of other Forums with your style of writing, so perhaps I could ask you to reflect on not only what you post but also on the style with which you do it. This Forum is without doubt one of the most tolerant on the Internet, I personally feel you have a lot to offer you must however try to work within the frame of what we are trying to achieve. If you do not like the way I mod, please feel free to leave, I would be sorry to see you go, but I have learnt a long time ago you cannot please everyone all the time. To recap, The GOUSA is an independant GL and we do not allow members to criticise or question its integrity like we do not allow criticism of Any Grand Lodge. This includes posting questions which could ultimately lead to criticsm.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 25, 2009 22:33:01 GMT
Running Dog Lackey , do all vtmasons look like that ?.
architect I would point out that Administrators outrank us lowly Mods. There is no bias here and you are well aware of it. There is no other forum where as much freedom is allowed. We even let Masons from Vermont on here.
As the Boss just said, "The GOUSA is an independant GL". That does not mean you can not ask questions.
I am personally in favour of questions 'when the going gets tough, the tough get going' in my humble opinion you have to be tough to be running any GL or indeed to be the GM or Secretary of a GL. My point is and it is still now the same as it was in my conversations with Jeff before any of these new GL's were created. You have to be ready to take the challenges that go with the job.
So fair reasonable questions, can be answered with fair reasonable answers. I think 'brandt' has done that quite well. We should be honest and admit that we do like a gossip on what goes on in other GL's.
I have had to answer my fair share of criticism of UGLE. I cant answer with the authority of a GM but I try to use the official quotes wherever possible. Co Masons have to do the same, and Women's Freemasonry, I see no reason why GO USA should be exempt.
I do think that Women's and Co Masonry has benefited from these exchanges , particularly on the Internet.
All these GL's have had to fight and undergo examination of a period of time. I do think we should all be careful not to create a situation where anyone can create a Lodge or GL at any time and is just be accepted by virtue of the name they are called by. I would go so far as to say Jeff would agree with me.
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Post by penfold on Mar 26, 2009 0:56:14 GMT
Questions, and the manner in which they are phrased not only serve to illuminate an answer they also reflect directly on the questioner - so ask nicely and bask in the warm fuzzy glow that you get from displaying such good and well founded qualities GOUSA policy in choosing to be male only and taking sanctions against members who don't follow that policy is internal business for GOUSA The public face of any GL is it's Grand Officers, I don't personally see any problem with asking a question - if it is done right, however, I also firmly believe in the right to NOT reply. We ae fortunate that Bro Brandt takes the time to respond, I can't think of a single GO from any other GL that has regularly and consistently taken the time to respond to genuine questions.
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vtmason
Member
Running Dog Lackey
Posts: 251
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Post by vtmason on Mar 26, 2009 1:16:21 GMT
Running Dog Lackey , do all vtmasons look like that ?. architect I would point out that Administrators outrank us lowly Mods. There is no bias here and you are well aware of it. There is no other forum where as much freedom is allowed. We even let Masons from Vermont on here. As the Boss just said, "The GOUSA is an independant GL". That does not mean you can not ask questions. I am personally in favour of questions 'when the going gets tough, the tough get going' in my humble opinion you have to be tough to be running any GL or indeed to be the GM or Secretary of a GL. My point is and it is still now the same as it was in my conversations with Jeff before any of these new GL's were created. You have to be ready to take the challenges that go with the job. So fair reasonable questions, can be answered with fair reasonable answers. I think 'brandt' has done that quite well. We should be honest and admit that we do like a gossip on what goes on in other GL's. I have had to answer my fair share of criticism of UGLE. I cant answer with the authority of a GM but I try to use the official quotes wherever possible. Co Masons have to do the same, and Women's Freemasonry, I see no reason why GO USA should be exempt. I do think that Women's and Co Masonry has benefited from these exchanges , particularly on the Internet. All these GL's have had to fight and undergo examination of a period of time. I do think we should all be careful not to create a situation where anyone can create a Lodge or GL at any time and is just be accepted by virtue of the name they are called by. I would go so far as to say Jeff would agree with me. Told you he would not just give up. I'm a Grand Lodge officer in my Grand Lodge. I appreciate the fact that I can field questions about my jurisdiction. I do so here knowing that I can answer the questions without being attacked, and I do so gladly
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Post by maat on Mar 26, 2009 3:14:11 GMT
Young grand lodges, old grand lodges, grand lodges we don't like to talk about .... sounds like your average family situation to me! Remember the 'terrible two's?' Remember when you wanted to leave home? Remember when they wanted to leave home? Time usually sorts things out and the generation gap diminishes. But shouldn't men of elightenment be above such profane struggles? Don't ask me why, but wasn't it God who decreed that birth should be painful. I'm going to talk to Him about that when we meet I do know that the struggle at the beginning of an infants life is what makes them strong. Maybe infant organisations need the pain for the same reason. Maat
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afterthought
Member
A true initiation never ends. -Robert Anton Wilson
Posts: 242
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Post by afterthought on Mar 26, 2009 17:43:44 GMT
But shouldn't men of elightenment be above such profane struggles? Don't ask me why, but wasn't it God who decreed that birth should be painful. I'm going to talk to Him about that when we meet I do know that the struggle at the beginning of an infants life is what makes them strong. Maybe infant organisations need the pain for the same reason. Maat God said that? I must have missed the memo. ;D
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Post by penfold on Mar 26, 2009 18:34:35 GMT
All existence is suffering Just try being a mod on a masonic forum! ;D
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 26, 2009 21:43:04 GMT
At least, you get memos!
Nobody calls me, nobody writes, Billy no-mates they call me. What I wouldn't give to get a memo.
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vtmason
Member
Running Dog Lackey
Posts: 251
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Post by vtmason on Mar 26, 2009 23:05:37 GMT
At least, you get memos! Nobody calls me, nobody writes, Billy no-mates they call me. What I wouldn't give to get a memo. I love you, there you old fart
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Post by maat on Mar 27, 2009 0:02:22 GMT
Don't ask me why, but wasn't it God who decreed that birth should be painful. I'm going to talk to Him about that when we meet I do know that the struggle at the beginning of an infants life is what makes them strong. Maybe infant organisations need the pain for the same reason. Maat God said that? I must have missed the memo. ;D He knew men couldn't handle it - so he just sent it to 'the strong'. King James BibleBe in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies King James BibleLike as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD Maat
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Post by maat on Mar 27, 2009 0:04:24 GMT
According to above GOUSA should note that God promises to redeem them from their enemies. I wish them well.
Maat
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afterthought
Member
A true initiation never ends. -Robert Anton Wilson
Posts: 242
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Post by afterthought on Mar 27, 2009 3:31:02 GMT
God said that? I must have missed the memo. ;D He knew men couldn't handle it - so he just sent it to 'the strong'. King James BibleBe in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies King James BibleLike as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O LORD Maat Until God actually writes a book for human consumption I will take the rest with a grain of salt.
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vtmason
Member
Running Dog Lackey
Posts: 251
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Post by vtmason on Mar 29, 2009 14:13:12 GMT
I've spent a little time pondering this situation. The GOdF is a male Grand lodge. They are in amity with both mixed Grand lodges and female Grand lodges. I also know that the GOUSA has billed itself as this. My guess is that by initiating women, the Grand Orient USA could be violating an agreement made with the female Grand lodges in Belgium and France. I don't speak for these guys, but my brain has been spinning this morning
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 29, 2009 17:29:46 GMT
Until God actually writes a book for human consumption I will take the rest with a grain of salt.[/quote] You must have missed the release date, he did we called it The Bible.
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vtmason
Member
Running Dog Lackey
Posts: 251
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Post by vtmason on Mar 29, 2009 17:48:15 GMT
Yes, that is exactly why there should be complete Masonic transparency and simple explanations for decisions made. Hiding behind such 'spin' as its an internal matter and nothing else can be said never helps. For any communication process to be effective it all depends on what messages are being sent! The control of the GOUSA has always only been in the hands of only one person. This is not an attack, it is a fact. BTW - I keep correcting the spelling mistake in the subject line. But why.... Why should they feel compelled to offer complete disclosure?
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afterthought
Member
A true initiation never ends. -Robert Anton Wilson
Posts: 242
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Post by afterthought on Mar 29, 2009 19:11:28 GMT
Until God actually writes a book for human consumption I will take the rest with a grain of salt. I have found no evidence to suggest that God wrote anything in the Bible. In fact who whole book seems to be just rehashed older myths. I am in agreement with Paine on this subject. just tidying up the quote marks
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afterthought
Member
A true initiation never ends. -Robert Anton Wilson
Posts: 242
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Post by afterthought on Mar 29, 2009 19:13:10 GMT
Yes, that is exactly why there should be complete Masonic transparency and simple explanations for decisions made. Hiding behind such 'spin' as its an internal matter and nothing else can be said never helps. For any communication process to be effective it all depends on what messages are being sent! The control of the GOUSA has always only been in the hands of only one person. This is not an attack, it is a fact. BTW - I keep correcting the spelling mistake in the subject line. I think it is best to refrain from calling anything fact without the factual evidence to back it up.
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