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Post by QUEST on Jul 6, 2009 22:39:03 GMT
" Using NO SCRIPTURES only your ability to reason. Can you do it? Do you dare try?"and, " And pleas reason, don't cut n paste...I can google for myself " This was posted on another site, by someone. So far there are about 1200 replies. And I added the example of the fine tuning of the universe to no avail. So, I decided to ask you guys/ladies. Is it even possible, and do you have better examples? Thanks
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Post by paulh on Jul 6, 2009 23:20:14 GMT
Do eye-witness statements count as evidence?
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Post by QUEST on Jul 6, 2009 23:26:49 GMT
Nah, I think the topic writer wants objective proof. Which I think may be impossible.
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Post by maat on Jul 6, 2009 23:47:53 GMT
So we are all discussing the same thing, what is your definition of God?
Maat
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Post by maat on Jul 6, 2009 23:48:13 GMT
I know, mean question ;D
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Post by maat on Jul 6, 2009 23:49:22 GMT
... and if your answer is 'creator of the Universe' ...
just look around you.
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mgc
Member
Posts: 204
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Post by mgc on Jul 6, 2009 23:49:26 GMT
there r several other questions related to this question that need to be answered before this question can be asked..
what is god to u? what is reality? what is proof?
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Post by QUEST on Jul 7, 2009 0:15:44 GMT
I would say Divine intellegence.
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Post by paulh on Jul 7, 2009 0:20:20 GMT
I hope Divine Love gets a look-in as well
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Post by QUEST on Jul 7, 2009 0:26:35 GMT
To me I believe that I have subjective proof. I have learn to see my creator working in and through me, I have also seen him working through others to help me along my path. On the objective side, I believe that I see a Divine handiwork in the universe. But the friend that I am having this debate with, asked for objective proof. The only thing I could give him was the fine tuning of the universe. I am still waiting on his reply as to his definition of proof and God. If there is an answer I knew where to come to look.
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Post by QUEST on Jul 7, 2009 0:29:10 GMT
I hope Divine Love gets a look-in as well Without love would anything else really matter?IMO.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jul 7, 2009 2:18:24 GMT
NO. We can on the other hand prove that many claimed God's never existed. In a physical form anyway. ;D
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Post by paulh on Jul 7, 2009 2:33:12 GMT
The legal system likes eye-witnesses, but the theological system appears to dislike them.
Perhaps the eye-witnesses disagree with the theologians.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jul 7, 2009 3:03:33 GMT
The legal system likes eye-witnesses, but the theological system appears to dislike them. Perhaps the eye-witnesses disagree with the theologians. Even eye-witness accounts only account for so much. If God came down before you and proved to you he was who he said he was why would I be obligated to believe it? It is always best to question IMHO.
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Post by brandt on Jul 7, 2009 4:07:55 GMT
Asking for proof of "God" is counter productive and disingenuous from the start. If there is a God then it is beyond us or she is not worth worshipping. If it is not beyond us then she is simply not God. Truth be told, the concept that some have that the universe was created by some celestial being that we just can't understand but demands the saccharine worship of such low creatures as us is pretty nutty. It is just as nutty to think that this whole thing is a cosmic accident.
We will find out soon enough.
Brandt
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Post by paulh on Jul 7, 2009 4:27:56 GMT
If God came down before you and proved to you he was who he said he was why would I be obligated to believe it? Abraham did not have that trouble. The god identified himself as the god of Abraham's fathers and that was sufficient to start on child sacrifice. So for Abraham, he apparently knew that it was a god and just needed to know which one. All of which is a bit off track perhaps, but suggests that there are plenty of eye-witness accounts of gods and those accounts are quite different from eye-witness accounts of God.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 7, 2009 9:01:52 GMT
The legal system likes eye-witnesses, but the theological system appears to dislike them. Perhaps the eye-witnesses disagree with the theologians. There have been plenty of eye witnesses, the question is do you believe them.
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Post by freemanati on Jul 7, 2009 11:10:14 GMT
In my opinion the presence of a spirit is testament to a higher being .....
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Post by paulh on Jul 7, 2009 12:04:13 GMT
There have been plenty of eye witnesses, the question is do you believe them. Normally eye-witnesses undergo some cross examination before acceptance of their testimony as part of a broader body of evidence. The Roman church has made quite an art of testing mystics. But if no human eye-witness is ever reliable about God or god, I would wonder why anyone might think that human thought processes about God or god would be any more reliable.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 7, 2009 12:20:29 GMT
Mark 14 (New International Version) Before the Sanhedrin 53They took Jesus to the high priest, and all the chief priests, elders and teachers of the law came together. 54Peter followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest. There he sat with the guards and warmed himself at the fire. 55The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they did not find any. 56Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree.
57Then some stood up and gave this false testimony against him: 58"We heard him say, 'I will destroy this man-made temple and in three days will build another, not made by man.' " 59Yet even then their testimony did not agree.
60Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 61But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ,[f] the Son of the Blessed One?"
62"I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
63The high priest tore his clothes. "Why do we need any more witnesses?" he asked. 64"You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?"
They all condemned him as worthy of death. 65Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him, struck him with their fists, and said, "Prophesy!" And the guards took him and beat him. -----------------------
Just depends if you believe these things happened, if you do there has been plenty of cross examination, much with deadly results.
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