FireMist
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Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
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Post by FireMist on Nov 28, 2009 19:06:28 GMT
As brought up in another thread, yet left unansered prior ot its being locked....
Concerning Primitive Rite of Memphis–Misraïm
I was told it is a worthy organization much like the Eastern Star, but open to men and women,,,, but like the Eastern Star, it is not masonry. How close, or far off the mark is that statement?
What is it?
What is it not?
Just seeking and information, not an argument. Let us all keep it civil please.
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Post by magusmasonica on Nov 28, 2009 19:25:17 GMT
As brought up in another thread, yet left unansered prior ot its being locked.... Concerning Primitive Rite of Memphis–Misraïm I was told it is a worthy organization much like the Eastern Star, but open to men and women,,,, but like the Eastern Star, it is not masonry. How close, or far off the mark is that statement? What is it? What is it not? Just seeking and information, not an argument. Let us all keep it civil please. I have no idea who would give you such nonsense. The Rites of Misraim, Memphis and Memphis-Misraim are exactly that - Rites of Freemasonry.All three feature Craft Degrees - Entered Apprentice, Companion and Master Mason. There are Masculine, feminine and mixed lodges in all three. The Rite of Misraïm Since 1738, one can find traces of this Rite filled with alchemical, occult and Egyptian references, with a structure of 90 degrees. Cagliostro, a key Freemason of his time, known how to give it the impulse necessary for its development. Very close to the Grand Master of the Order of the Knights of Malta, Manual Pinto de Fonseca, Cagliostro founded the Rite of High Egyptian Masonry in 1784. He received, between 1767 and 1775, from Sir Knight Luigi d’Aquino, the brother of the national Grand Master of Neapolitan Masonry, the Arcana Arcanorum, three very high hermetic degrees. In 1788, he introduced them into the Rite of Misraïm and gave a patent to this Rite. It developed quickly in Milan, Genoa and Naples. In 1803, it was introduced by Joseph Marc and Michel Bédarride. During this period of time, the Rite recruited not only aristocrats but Bonapartists and Republicans, and sometimes even revolutionary Carbonari. It was forbidden in 1817, following the business of the Four Sergeants of La Rochelle and the uneasyness caused by the Carbonari. It became the meeting-place of opponents to the regime. This progressively let to its decline. Toward 1890, the last Masons of the Rite regrouped in the only remaining Lodge: Arc-en-Ciel. The Rite of Memphis Constituted by Jacques Etienne Marconis de Nègre in 1838, the Rite of Memphis is a variant of the Rite of Misraïm. It takes the Egypto - alchemical mythology and completes it with pieces borrowed from the Templars and chivalry. The Rite of Memphis attracted personalities in quest of an ideal. It knew a certain success among military Lodges until 1841; the date where it was put to sleep. But, with the dismissal of Louis - Philippe in 1848, the Rite was reactivated. In England, from about 1850 numerous English Lodges worked the Rite of Memphis in French. They maintained celebrity for having welcomed ardent Republicans (Louis Blanc, Alfred Talandier, Charles Longuet and Joseph Garibaldi, (honorary member)). In 1871, the crash of the Commune of Paris contributed to a decrease in Lodges that would further decline around 1880 following the declaration of amnesty of the new French republican government. In Egypt, from 1873, the Rite of Memphis developed quickly, under the direction of Brother Solutore Avventure Zola, Grand Hierophant until the reign of king Farouk. In the United States, Marconis de Nègre implanted the Rite around 1856. There was a noticeable emphatuation, particularly under the Grand Mastery of Brother Seymour in 1861. The Rite of Memphis-Misraïm In 1881, General Garibaldi was preparing to fuse the two Rites, which would be effective as of 1889. From this moment, the Rite of Memphis-Misraïm became implanted on the many different continents of the world. Amongst the Post-Modern current we are seeing a revival of the original Rites of Misraim and Memphis. Lodge Napoleon Bonaparte is a Rite of Misraim lodge. Lodge Ptah is a Rite of Memphis lodge and Lodge Helios is a Rite of Memphis-Misraim lodge. Love and Light,
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2009 21:25:29 GMT
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FireMist
Member
Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Nov 28, 2009 21:32:30 GMT
and there are those who say the rites of the Eastern Star are also the rites of freemasonry. that is why I ask the question.
Good info thee, BC. and a nice timeline.
Do they only work in French then?
Is that Post-Modern current you speak of then three separate bodies?
Remember, keep it simple for this hillbilly
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Post by magusmasonica on Nov 28, 2009 21:54:42 GMT
and there are those who say the rites of the Eastern Star are also the rites of freemasonry. that is why I ask the question. Good info thee, BC. and a nice timeline. Do they only work in French then? Is that Post-Modern current you speak of then three separate bodies? Remember, keep it simple for this hillbilly No, there are plenty of English working lodges who work thse Rites. In Post-Modern lodges I am not speaking of three seperat bodies. Post-Moderns don't have bodies, just independent bodies. I know of three different lodges that work three versions of these collective Rites. These Rites have ZERO to do with the Eastern Star. The Eastern Star. The Eastern Star does NOT I.P.R. Comparing the Rites of Memphis Misraim is no more fair than comapring the AFHR to it? Do you understand? These are MASONIC RITES, no different in scope than Emulation, P-Webb, Taylors, Emulation, RER,REAA, Lauderdale etc. Please stop associating them with a side body for the family of Master Masons while pleading for a non argument. I gave you the correct information. I am quickly finding it patronizing. Love and Light,
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Post by magusmasonica on Nov 28, 2009 21:56:14 GMT
No, that website is of the Sovereign Sanctuary USA, I have no affiliation there. they are a fine organization, just not for me. Love and Light,
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2009 22:13:55 GMT
Oh, I know you don't have any connection to Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm.
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Post by magusmasonica on Nov 28, 2009 22:18:14 GMT
Oh, I know you don't have any connection to Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm. You don't know anything. Are you here just to start arguments? You seem like a serial flamer.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2009 22:26:43 GMT
Oh, No! I just wrote that because if you were connected to Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm. There would've been a link. Thats all! Thats how I know that you are not a part of there order.
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Post by magusmasonica on Nov 28, 2009 22:32:52 GMT
Oh, No! I just wrote that because if you were connected to Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm. There would've been a link. Thats all! Thats how I know that you are not a part of there order. I am a member in good standing of the Sovereign Sanctuary of Italy. Would you like to start another argument? I would never recommend you Lynn123, perhaps someone else will?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2009 23:08:05 GMT
I am not trying to flame you or start an argument with you magusmasonica.
The only thing am trying to state is that I know that you are not connected to there order because there is no link between your two orders, thats all.
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 28, 2009 23:09:47 GMT
This is getting a little untidy;
Firemist, When you mention The Primitive Rite of Memphis Misraim, this is a very difficult thing to explain. There are several (all legitimate) lines of this rite; some are even recognised by The UGLE as being regular in the terms used by UGLE to define regular (another story!).
The rite has many lines and is very similar to the GD in that respect, but it also gets even more complicated because there are also Rites of Memphis and Rites of Misraim, so there are in fact 3 different rites with sevearal lineages belonging to all of them.
As this is the case a member of M & M from one line will have a completely different understanding and appreciation of the rite than someone from another.
I am very familiar with M & M through the line of John Yarker, this could be (And I would put money on it!) very different from Magus Masonica's line.
An Order that has between 95 and 99 degrees is bound to have vast differences depending on the flavour you practice.
Lynn, it is impossible for anyone to know who is and isnt a member of M & M there are simple too many variations.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2009 23:34:27 GMT
I am sorry everyone, I did not mean for things to get as middlepillar called it "untidy". I know their different variations of Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm. Thats one reason, I could never get into M&M. That and because when Janet Wintermute was in it, she wrote about how hard it was to climb the degrees. But now she is in Eastern Order of International Co-Freemasonry. Here are the degrees to the M&M: www.stichtingargus.nl/vrijmetselarij/memphis_en.html
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FireMist
Member
Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Nov 29, 2009 1:44:53 GMT
Concerning Primitive Rite of Memphis–Misraïm I was told it is a worthy organization much like the Eastern Star, but open to men and women,,,, but like the Eastern Star, it is not masonry. How close, or far off the mark is that statement? What is it? What is it not? Just seeking and information, not an argument. Let us all keep it civil please. and there are those who say the rites of the Eastern Star are also the rites of freemasonry. ....that is why I ask the question. Good info there, BC. and a nice timeline. Do they only work in French then? Is that Post-Modern current you speak of then three separate bodies? Remember, keep it simple for this hillbilly No, there are plenty of English working lodges who work thse Rites. In Post-Modern lodges I am not speaking of three seperat bodies. Post-Moderns don't have bodies, just independent bodies. I know of three different lodges that work three versions of these collective Rites. These Rites have ZERO to do with the Eastern Star. The Eastern Star. The Eastern Star does NOT I.P.R. Comparing the Rites of Memphis Misraim is no more fair than comapring the AFHR to it? Do you understand? These are MASONIC RITES, no different in scope than Emulation, P-Webb, Taylors, Emulation, RER,REAA, Lauderdale etc. Please stop associating them with a side body for the family of Master Masons while pleading for a non argument. I gave you the correct information. I am quickly finding it patronizing. Love and Light, I again thank you for the information. As you seemed to have missed my type, It is not I associating them with a side body either liking them to or different from Masonry. I have included my quoted statements above. I have had conversations over the past few months with some masculine only masons and bring this up out of curiosity. I honestly thought the subject being close to your heart, that you would affirm or correct their statements to me without malice. For the most part, you have. And I appreciate your candor. However, to find that I am the one trying to do the associating, and to accuse me of patronizing, is just plain mean and misplaced. I am sorry I was wrong about you. I really thought you were bigger than that. I again thank you for your information. You have given much information in a couple of short posts. That combined with some I found at another source prove those who were telling me about the order as being incorrect in their statements.
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FireMist
Member
Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Nov 29, 2009 1:47:23 GMT
This is getting a little untidy; Firemist, When you mention The Primitive Rite of Memphis Misraim, this is a very difficult thing to explain. There are several (all legitimate) lines of this rite; some are even recognised by The UGLE as being regular in the terms used by UGLE to define regular (another story!). The rite has many lines and is very similar to the GD in that respect, but it also gets even more complicated because there are also Rites of Memphis and Rites of Misraim, so there are in fact 3 different rites with sevearal lineages belonging to all of them........ And being in the USA, is probably why the fellows talking to me about it compared it as they did. (two from OH and one KY, both masculine only lodges) Thank you for the information. I appreciate your kindness.
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Post by magusmasonica on Nov 29, 2009 3:29:29 GMT
This is getting a little untidy; Firemist, When you mention The Primitive Rite of Memphis Misraim, this is a very difficult thing to explain. There are several (all legitimate) lines of this rite; some are even recognised by The UGLE as being regular in the terms used by UGLE to define regular (another story!). The rite has many lines and is very similar to the GD in that respect, but it also gets even more complicated because there are also Rites of Memphis and Rites of Misraim, so there are in fact 3 different rites with sevearal lineages belonging to all of them. As this is the case a member of M & M from one line will have a completely different understanding and appreciation of the rite than someone from another. I am very familiar with M & M through the line of John Yarker, this could be (And I would put money on it!) very different from Magus Masonica's line. An Order that has between 95 and 99 degrees is bound to have vast differences depending on the flavour you practice. Lynn, it is impossible for anyone to know who is and isnt a member of M & M there are simple too many variations. Bro. Chris I am glad you aren't a betting man. ;D MEAPRMM/GOE GM Lineage: In 1815, in Montauban (France), the Mother Lodge of the Rite of Memphis was constituted with the Grand Master Samuel Honis as head, whom followed, in 1816, Gabriel-Mathieu Marconis. In 1838, Jean Etienne Marconis de Nègre, son of this last one, took over the Rite of Memphis. The Rite, for J. E. Marconis de Nègre, was a continuation of the ancient Mysteries practised in the Antiquity, in India and in Egypt. The Constitutions of the Rite said: "... the masonic rite of Memphis is the continuation of the Mysteries of the Antiquity. The Rite taught the first men to pay homage to the divinity... ". The Rite of Memphis reached the 92 and 95 degrees. In 1881, the Italian general Giuseppe Garibaldi reunified the Rites of Memphis and Misraïm and became the Grand Hierophante of both. After the death of Garibaldi, in 1882, the Rites entered in a "dark" period up to when, in 1890, various lodges of both Rites were federated and the Rite of Memphis-Misraïm appeared. In 1900, the Italian Ferdinando Francesco degli Oddi became Head of the Memphis-Misraïm and was replaced, by the English John Yarker, in 1902. The Rite reached the 97 degrees. In 1902, the German Theodor Reuss established the Sovereign Sanctuary of Memphis-Misraïm in Germany and in 1913, after the death of Yarker, he became the International Head of the Rite. In 1924, T. Reuss passed to Eternal East and the succession was interrupted, except in the O.T.O. (Ordo Templi Orientis), the neotemplar order founded by Reuss, in 1905, in Germany. In reality, the O.T.O. had included the Rite of Memphis-Misraïm, although in a reduced version, where its principals degrees were incorporated. In 1909, Theodor Reuss delivered a licence to the famous martinista Gerard Encauss (Papus). The successors of Papus were Charles Detré (Tedé), Jean Bricaud, Constant Chevillon, Charles-Henry Dupont and Robert Ambelain. In 1939, Jean Bricaud passed to the Eternal East and was followed by Chevillon. In 1944, Chevillon was murdered by the French collaborationists of nazional-socialism and was followed by Dupont. And, in 1960, Ambelain succeeded Dupont. On November 14, 1973, the Italian Francesco Brunelli (1927-1982) was named by Robert Ambelain responsible for the Rite in Italy. On November 22, 1973, Francesco Brunelli (Nebo) - Grand Master of the Martinist Ancient and Traditional Order and of the Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm - was received with all honors in the Grand Lodge of Italy, to Palazzo Giustiniani. But the activity of the Rite in Italy and in the Grand Lodge of Italy was anecdotal in the seventies. In 1981, Francesco Brunelli contacted the known Italian initiate Frank G. Ripel to restructure the Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm and the situation of the Rite was the following: 99º or International Head of the Egyptian Oriental Order of the Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm, 98º or Incognito Superior (from the degree VIIº to the XIIIº of the Order of the Rosa Mistica), 97º or Substitute of the International Head, 96º or National Head, 1º-95º or Operative Freemason (from the Iº to the VIº of the Order of the Rosa Mistica). In the renewed Egyptian Oriental Order of the Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm of which we are about to talk, from 1º to 95º, the 6 Alchemical Operations are found and associated to the degrees 1º-3º, 4º-33º, 34º-42º, 43º-63º, 64º-74º and 75º-95º. What the MEAPRMM/GOE works is the operative side of the Rite. Love and Light,
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