|
Post by maximus on Mar 17, 2010 13:37:15 GMT
In my world a Grand Master deserves respect. Love and Light, In my world, a Grand Master deserves cordiality, yet every person must EARN respect. This goes for royalty, presidents, and other heads of state as well. Titles don't make the person respectable. Only their words and actions can do as much. I could give a fig for the titles who do bring their office no honor. You mean, I can't make up fancy titles and create new orders and be entitled to instant respect? Ahem...
|
|
|
Post by goatrider on Mar 17, 2010 13:50:01 GMT
I suspect the thread is an attempt to bring the forum to the opinion of various Occultists who worked together in the promotion of occultism in Freemasonry. This is a recurring theme with MM. Or to their efforts to create another form of Freemasonry because their views were not accepted by the vast majority. The occultist foundation of Freemasonry has been rejected on a myriad of occasions over a very long period of time. Now if you want to follow the thread of thought that Papus has a qualified or unqualified opinion of regularity then please do so. We must look at the person in order to understand the quote, MM says he was an important Freemason. Although he is an extremely important figure with regard to various esoteric orders--Martinism in particular--his involvement in Freemasonry seems to be minimal. His influence upon masons seems to be limited to those that are familiar with his work. Encausse's esoteric writings are indeed important; his journal L’Initiation is still active today. Le Tarot des bohémiens is a work upon which subsequent authors have drawn and is a standard primary source in its own right. I feel compelled to respond to the following statement: This assertion is problematical. Close examination of many historical documents of Freemasonry (the "Old Charges") reveal many strong hints and subtle clues referencing the influence of Hermeticism that have been handed down through the years and are included as variants in many of the lectures and charges in Freemasonry today. Considering how the "histories" contain many inaccuracies leads one to consider that there are other reasons behind the various statements contained within these older documents, and those that are willing to follow these clues will have much to reward their studies. For example, the characters, myths, and legends relating to Pythagoras and the Vulcan are still referred to; in fact, in some of the work we are plainly told in a rather straightforward manner that the Vulcan was the original founder of Freemasonry and that he actually existed. Hephaestus is associated with a myth that involves Aphrodite and Ares; the alchemical recipe is unmistakable and plain to see for those who have eyes to hear. However, there are important distinctions to be made regarding the broad umbrella of "esoterica", and unfortunately, these are beyond the scope of this thread. More relevant, perhaps, are the distinctions of regularity previously referred to.
|
|
|
Post by maximus on Mar 17, 2010 13:59:10 GMT
So I'm whining and stupid am I? Perhaps I'm just fed up with members have personal fights on what is/was an excellent forum. Bll tried to get the topic back on track a few posts back and all of a sudden, "bang" were back to the tit for tat comments again. I was going to post as I'm interested in what Papus has to say, having recently read , (again) his book "Tarot of the Bohemians". The fact that I do have to wade through tons of cr~p to find the important points is to say the least annoying. Yes I do visit other forums where topics are discussed and are kept relevent, so perhaps this "baby" might just stick with them instead of listening to those who think they are far better than others. My question to you is, where were you during the period of time after Magus ran everyone off in disgust, when the board was pretty much dead? I didn't see you or Whistler posting interesting threads here then. So why do you show up now and complain? Nut up or shut up, as Tallahassee would put it.
|
|
|
Post by goatrider on Mar 17, 2010 14:05:14 GMT
My take on the various titles, whether in Scottish Rite or any other body, is just like everything else in Masonry, they are symbols; this is the language of Masonry. Dig behind the symbols, and maybe there's something to discover.
Many look; a few can actually see.
|
|
|
Post by maximus on Mar 17, 2010 14:13:19 GMT
My Super Exalted titles were conferred on me personally by Bro. Steve Foley, in the now defunct bar that is closed down since Maat left, while Karen peeked from within her access hole in the baseboard. Afterward, we had meat and potatoes. No humour was used in the conferring of the degrees.
|
|
KNOs1s
Member
I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
|
Post by KNOs1s on Mar 17, 2010 14:20:18 GMT
My take on the various titles, whether in Scottish Rite or any other body, is just like everything else in Masonry, they are symbols; this is the language of Masonry. Dig behind the symbols, and maybe there's something to discover. Many look; a few can actually see. The message is buried in a grave.
|
|
|
Post by maximus on Mar 17, 2010 14:22:58 GMT
Locked inside a bonebox.
|
|
KNOs1s
Member
I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
|
Post by KNOs1s on Mar 17, 2010 14:49:37 GMT
Having sat around for days reading the various posts on this forum I've came to this conclusion. Hats off and all credit to the mods for trying to keep the peace in what seems to be a constant hostile environment whenever a certain few post. Every topic gets highjacked by those wishing to score points against others, so much so, that many of the original members don't seem to post here anymore, and who could blame them. IMHO why don't those who wish to have "mexican stand offs" and "handbag fights" do it elsewhere!!!!! Basicly this tit for tat cr*p is getting boring. That is the problem with Freedom of Speech. It can't be "Freedom to speak only what I want to hear". All voices have the right to be heard, and all people have the right to ignore or dissect.
|
|
|
Post by goatrider on Mar 17, 2010 14:56:58 GMT
My Super Exalted titles were conferred on me personally by Bro. Steve Foley, in the now defunct bar that is closed down since Maat left, while Karen peeked from within her access hole in the baseboard. Afterward, we had meat and potatoes. No humour was used in the conferring of the degrees. What; no scotch afterwards? Shame.
|
|
|
Post by goatrider on Mar 17, 2010 14:58:53 GMT
My take on the various titles, whether in Scottish Rite or any other body, is just like everything else in Masonry, they are symbols; this is the language of Masonry. Dig behind the symbols, and maybe there's something to discover. Many look; a few can actually see. The message is buried in a grave. A recent visitor to our Lodge during a 3rd asserted that they all kick the messenger; I thought it a little irregular, but he assured me that's how they do it.
|
|
|
Post by goatrider on Mar 17, 2010 15:26:01 GMT
My Super Exalted titles were conferred on me personally by Bro. Steve Foley, in the now defunct bar that is closed down since Maat left, while Karen peeked from within her access hole in the baseboard. Afterward, we had meat and potatoes. No humour was used in the conferring of the degrees. Steve needs to know that we have absconded these grand titles and taken them to another secret location; everyone who is conferred with these gets lots of pretty stars to wear. It's great, and it's very solemn.
|
|
|
Post by maximus on Mar 17, 2010 15:45:39 GMT
My Super Exalted titles were conferred on me personally by Bro. Steve Foley, in the now defunct bar that is closed down since Maat left, while Karen peeked from within her access hole in the baseboard. Afterward, we had meat and potatoes. No humour was used in the conferring of the degrees. What; no scotch afterwards? Shame. Maat took all the liquor with her when she left. Just a few dusty bottles of Guinness left in the corner.
|
|
|
Post by mrmason on Mar 17, 2010 16:02:16 GMT
To Lee and all the other forumites,(you know who you are),t's been a pleasure to contribute over the years on this forum. It's a pity that it has to end.
Ah well I'm off to "shut up" and get a "cuddle" from a member of my own lodge.
|
|
|
Post by maximus on Mar 17, 2010 16:09:58 GMT
To Lee and all the other forumites,(you know who you are),t's been a pleasure to contribute over the years on this forum. It's a pity that it has to end. Ah well I'm off to "shut up" and get a "cuddle" from a member of my own lodge. Well there he goes, rather than contribute he decides to tuck tail and run away. All hat, no cattle.
|
|
|
Post by magusmasonica on Mar 17, 2010 16:32:17 GMT
The following document dates from 1933, and offers only a brief historical synopsis of the "Rite of Memphis" and the "Rite of Misraim", originally separate bodies originating in 18th century France, and allegedly influenced by Cagliostro (1743-1795). [1] The author of this article, Joanny Bricaud was head of an MM and part of the French O.T.O. and the Gnostic Church. His article is abbreviated that it takes at its starting-point the year 1856, when the Rite of Memphis first arrived in America [2]. I have omitted dates from 1863 to 1868, and from 1873 to 1900. In 1881 the ninety degrees of the Rite of Misraim were united with the ninety-seven degrees of Memphis. Regular Freemasons generally treat the MM (as they also do all O.T.O. groups) as 'fringe' or 'irregular' Masonry. Even so, mention of the originally regular Rite of Cerneau occurs in this text. The tangled history of these innumerable rites and their inter-relationships is in reality a depressing tale of squabbles over legitimacy and occasionally money-matters. So far as the O.T.O. phenomenon alone is concerned, where also Bricaud has omitted information, this has been inserted in [square] brackets. Many of the main figures mentioned here also come to light in association with the Gnostic Church. user.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/sunrise/mm1.htmJohn Yarker (17 April 1833 - 20 March 1913) was an English Freemason, author, and occultist. Gerard Encausse (July 13, 1865 - 25 October 1916), whose esoteric pseudonym was Papus, was the Spanish-born French physician, hypnotist, and popularizer of occultism, Aleister Crowley (pronounced /ˈkroʊli/; 12 October 1875 – 1 December 1947), born Edward Alexander Crowley, and also known as both Frater Perdurabo and The Great Beast, was an influential English occultist and ceremonial magician, I suspect the thread is an attempt to bring the forum to the opinion of various Occultists who worked together in the promotion of occultism in Freemasonry. This is a recurring theme with MM. Or to their efforts to create another form of Freemasonry because their views were not accepted by the vast majority. The occultist foundation of Freemasonry has been rejected on a myriad of occasions over a very long period of time. Now if you want to follow the thread of thought that Papus has a qualified or unqualified opinion of regularity then please do so. We must look at the person in order to understand the quote, MM says he was an important Freemason. HIGHLIGHTS FROM HIS CAREER 1889 Publishes Le Tarot des bohémiens: le plus ancien livre du monde [The Tarot of the Gypsies: The Most Ancient Book in the World]. 1889 Reconstitutes the Martinist Order, a gnostic Christian society. 1894 Receives his doctorate in medicine. 1909 Publishes Le Tarot divinatoire: clef du tirage des cartes et des sorts [Divination by Tarot: Key to Reading Cards and Lots]. 1914 Serves as a medical officer in the French Army at the outbreak of World War I. All told, Papus authored 160 titles, mostly on esotericism, ranging from magazine articles to lengthy treatises. For example, in his book Traité élémentaire d’occultisme [Elementary Treatise on Occultism] (1888), he explored a wide variety of subjects, including astral influences on humankind; the history, characteristics, and missions of human racial groups; significant spiritual traditions (e.g., Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, and Christianity); and secret societies (e.g, the Templars, the Rosicrucians, and Freemasonry). Little of his output, however, has been translated into English. Additionally, he founded two important occult journals, L’Initiation [Initiation] and La Voile d’Isis [The Veil of Isis]. His son, Philippe Encausse, with good reason sometimes referred to his father as the “Balzac of occultism”. Although he never became a regular freemason, Papus joined many other organizations dedicated to esotericism, frequently serving in leadership positions. They included the Theosophical Society, the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor, the Golden Dawn’s Athahoor Temple in Paris, and the Ordre Kabbalistique de la Rose-Croix [Cabalistic Order of the Rosy Cross]. He also founded the Groupe Indépendant d’Études Ésotériques [Independent Group for Esoteric Studies] and reconstituted the Martinist Order, an influential gnostic Christian society, which had its roots in the teachings of the late eighteenth- and early nineteenth-century French mystic Louis Claude de Saint-Martin. www.villarevak.org/bio/papus_1.htmlI can not verify the detail, I just place it here for consideration.Bill, You may not agree with Papus, Yarker. Ambelain etc. but IMHO that makes them no less important. I don't agree too much with anything Mackey ever wrote but he is historically a very important Mason. The different views and opinions are fine, but from my point of view it is really only cheating yourself to dismiss historical Masonic figures because they maynot be coming from your side of the fence. My take anyway. Love and Light,
|
|
|
Post by goatrider on Mar 17, 2010 16:50:07 GMT
OK, here's a new term: Paramasonry. I was reading the Papus entry in Wiki and ran across it. This could be an entirely new thread and we could even rehash some of the same old stuff we've talked about here! It doesn't seem to be a term that's widely applied. Is it better than, say..."fringe" masonry? (My apron has some fringe... ;D )
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Mar 17, 2010 17:22:33 GMT
I have dismissed no one I just point out that they all have an occultist agenda.
As well as trying to keep the thread on track and relying on the original post.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Mar 17, 2010 17:25:59 GMT
OK, asked nicely for all of you to to play nice, no one is listening thread is now locked.
|
|