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Post by sammy on Mar 13, 2010 1:36:31 GMT
The only observation i can make on this subject is as follows. basing this on the theory we started out as a single celled organisms adapting to our habitat causing us to evolve, there shouldn't be such obvious differences in the way we look and think. assuming we only look the way we do to adapt in the best way according to the habitat we are surviving in. it's no secret we lived in caves but so do bats and many other mammals. the only thing that makes sense to me is animals adapted their mind to enhance their senses, and we adapted our senses to increase our mind. any thoughts on this?
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Post by mayheyde on Mar 22, 2010 1:36:01 GMT
the difference between animals and mankind. animal:do not have cogitation mankind :have cogitation i think this the most important difference between animals and mankind
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 22, 2010 1:59:27 GMT
cogitation 1. the act of meditation or contemplation. 2. the faculty of thinking. 3. a thought; a design or plan. — cogitator, n. — cogitative, adj.
I was just wondering , how do you prove : animal: do not have cogitation
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Post by magusmasonica on Mar 22, 2010 4:11:51 GMT
Human beings are the only beings who can drastically have control over their own natural environment. For an example, humans can dump a load of waste into a lake and kill the ecosystem. No other creature can do this.
Conversely, humans can also bio-engineer a ecosystem in an unnatural environment (a bio-dome for an example.) This lays outside of the animals capacity.
Love and Light,
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Post by lauderdale on Mar 22, 2010 5:28:01 GMT
Humanity can record their thoughts, words and actions for posterity. They can over-ride their instincts. They can to an extent control their environment and can live in one that is hostile to their design parameters with the help of devices they have invented, eg Space, Underwater, in extreme cold. They can see themselves in a continuity of time. Animals, as far as we are aware, cannot do these things. Some DO have memory, cats and dogs for example and some of the higher animals, so they do not live only in "real time" but I don't think they can visualise themselves in the future, or plan with reference thereto.
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Post by magusmasonica on Mar 22, 2010 5:32:48 GMT
Humanity can record their thoughts, words and actions for posterity. They can over-ride their instincts. They can to an extent control their environment and can live in one that is hostile to their design parameters with the help of devices they have invented, eg Space, Underwater, in extreme cold. They can see themselves in a continuity of time. Animals, as far as we are aware, cannot do these things. Some DO have memory, cats and dogs for example and some of the higher animals, so they do not live only in "real time" but I don't think they can visualise themselves in the future, or plan with reference thereto. Another great post Bro. Steve. Love and Light,
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KNOs1s
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 22, 2010 5:36:23 GMT
I think you'd find some environmental engineering at the animal level. A bird builds a nest, a water-spider carries a bubble of air into a hostile environment, &c. As to destruction of environment, animals destroy their own food source quite often. A human seems to be the only animal with the capacity for conscious suicide. Not self-sacrifice, but pure suicide with no rational reason behind it. I know of no other creature proven to do this.
The other thing about humanity that sets us off is our ability to deny our genetic programming. All other animals must obey, as far as I know, the drive to reproduce, nurture their young (in most cases), and eat. A human can starve intentionally, deny sex drives, and abandon their young. That's different, and gives things meaning when there is an understood alternative.
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Post by magusmasonica on Mar 22, 2010 5:47:30 GMT
Human beings can treat each other and animals with total cruelty and disrespect for the sheer sake that they can.
Love and Light,
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KNOs1s
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 22, 2010 5:51:44 GMT
Human beings can treat each other and animals with total cruelty and disrespect for the sheer sake that they can. Love and Light, Too true. I have personally been the subject of such actions. People made fun of the fact I used a cane at one point. I just sluff it off. I'm more likely to stand up for others than myself. When my friend from Puerto Rico was attacked because of his ethnicity I defended him for example. Of course, when we used to play 'mercy' in grade school, I would never say 'uncle'. Almost had my hand broken one time. ;D Animals can murder other animals for the sheer sake that they can. This is now being discovered with wolves and lions. This is clearly not a human trait.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 22, 2010 9:13:32 GMT
Human beings are the only beings who can drastically have control over their own natural environment. For an example, humans can dump a load of waste into a lake and kill the ecosystem. No other creature can do this. Conversely, humans can also bio-engineer a ecosystem in an unnatural environment (a bio-dome for an example.) This lays outside of the animals capacity. Love and Light, OK , how about a beaver then, he can build a dam and flood hundreds of acres of land ? isn't that similar.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 22, 2010 9:16:25 GMT
The interesting point to me was, if we accept the theory of evolution, then when did man stop being an animal and start being human. Then we have examples of family behaviour in animals. Herding for example, there has to be some form of understanding in order for that system to work.
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KNOs1s
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 22, 2010 16:00:17 GMT
Good point Brother. Animals understand language and even mathematics purportedly. Even ants will herd other insects for exploitation. I think for certain that humans reflect an animal nature, yet are not confined by their animal nature. No other animal can deny drives impelled by genetic programming.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 22, 2010 16:21:24 GMT
OK, then how do we explain dogs ? every dog has a Wolf for an ancestor ? yet it lives happily with man and for the most part does not hunt in packs and does not kill, well not often anyway.
You see where my human cogitation is going with this, it just does not seem that simple.
We would like to think we are different from animals, but are we ? some behaviour I have witnessed would certainly not be out of place in 10,000 BC.
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KNOs1s
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 22, 2010 16:32:18 GMT
I think I would argue for domestication and the willingness to follow a herd, etc. A dog can be trained, as can humans. I'd say if a dog's food is taken away for long enough, there is a good possibility he may revert to killing humans-just as a human might, though the resistance is higher. I do not think that a dog could force themselves to starve to death except in extreme conditions. A human could self-impose such actions with no reason at all. Dogs have been trained to be killers, and Pavlov displayed the ability of a dog to respond to conditioning. I do not think that we are all that much different from animals, and that is why I pointed out similarities-even in the insect world. I do think we have a greater ability to deny our predispositions.
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Post by lauderdale on Mar 22, 2010 16:32:49 GMT
As I don't accept the Theory of Evolution then I really cannot answer that.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 22, 2010 16:44:20 GMT
Maybe we have trained to do so ? I don't know the answers, but I am good at questions.
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KNOs1s
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 22, 2010 16:53:10 GMT
Maybe we have trained to do so ? I don't know the answers, but I am good at questions. It is possible. There are so many things we do that make no sense from a rational or self-preservation standpoint that it seems to be not interested in these matters.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Mar 24, 2010 14:08:27 GMT
As I don't accept the Theory of Evolution then I really cannot answer that.
You'd be silly to, as it's only a theory. However, it is a very convincing hypothesis, if you take all the evidence together and without prejudice.
The thing that always amuses me is the thing people cite in opposition to Evolution, the idea of Intelligent Design. As if they presume to know what the Almighty Architect had in mind for Creation. It actually strikes me that Evolution is the most intelligent design policy of all: designing life to be able to adapt over time to any new environment. It might not have the human-sized scale of the Six Days of Creation, but it surely has the God-sized scale of the Four Thousand Seven Hundred and Forty-Five Thousand Billion Days of Creation. The only thing mankind ever managed to do in six days was fight a war, dig a trench or make babies.
The Ancient Greeks didin't think there was any essential difference between animals and mankind. That was why Prometheus stole fire from heaven, to set mankind free from wretched animal poverty. Apart from that, the general convention was that animals defecated in public and human beings didn't. This is why the Cynic philosopher Diogenes was nicknamed ho kunos, the Dog - because he behaved like one where defecation was concerned, having thrown off the affectations of civilised society.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 24, 2010 14:45:24 GMT
You obviously have never been to Ibiza on Holiday then Ruff.
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ruffashlar
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Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
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Post by ruffashlar on Mar 24, 2010 14:59:57 GMT
Fear not! I have it marked down on my itinerary of Caca Europa
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