KNOs1s
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I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 19, 2010 15:42:42 GMT
Five ear piercings in one ear. I think, Brother, that if it were stated 'five-ear piercings', the hyphen would indicate five ears. I'll check Strunk & White's Manual of Style on that. I don't use more than two of them anymore, as the others are through the cartilage. As a teenager, I did all five myself, which was painful and should have gotten infected. ;D The English language is a fascination I only have two ears.
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Post by patrickg on Mar 19, 2010 15:51:39 GMT
If you don't mind I would like to make my opinion and feelings known. I listen to many who may be interested in joining Freemasonry or indeed as Patrick just said , has joined but now not so sure. Easiest one first, Patrick, either you are in the wrong Lodge or you expect too much, you are the only one who knows the answer to that. If I can be of any assistance then you only have to ask. I think my problem is that, as a child, having been subjected to systematic abuse and bullying for many years, mostly at home, I now find it very difficult, not only to trust people but also let people get close to me, or even to make friends. My wife was the one who wanted me to become a mason mainly for the fraternal association. Having decided it's not really for me I still find it easier to bend my will and comply with other people's wishes and remain in the craft. Patrick
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KNOs1s
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I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 19, 2010 16:11:04 GMT
If you don't mind I would like to make my opinion and feelings known. I listen to many who may be interested in joining Freemasonry or indeed as Patrick just said , has joined but now not so sure. Easiest one first, Patrick, either you are in the wrong Lodge or you expect too much, you are the only one who knows the answer to that. If I can be of any assistance then you only have to ask. I think my problem is that, as a child, having been subjected to systematic abuse and bullying for many years, mostly at home, I now find it very difficult, not only to trust people but also let people get close to me, or even to make friends. My wife was the one who wanted me to become a mason mainly for the fraternal association. Having decided it's not really for me I still find it easier to bend my will and comply with other people's wishes and remain in the craft. Patrick As a child I was likewise subject to bullying and abuse, though I'll admit it was a bit more chaotic than all that. In many ways, it made me who I am today. In retrospect, I would not have it any other way as it made me what I am today, though I would not wish it on any other. Nor do I suppose I had it worse than anybody else. It made me more skeptical and discerning when it came to those who wished to take advantage of others, and to stand up to those bullies and shysters (which I consider a type of bullying) whenever possible. I trust people very warily at first, if at all. As to joining Freemasonry, I've never been a joiner. In school I never joined a single club I can recall. I met with Army recruiters right out of high school, but decided I did not want the structure at the time. When I joined a lodge, my wife had no idea what it was. I read engaged in reading about philosophers and statesmen I admired and discovered the bulk of them around the time period I studied were Freemasons such as Voltaire (who was only a Mason for about a month before his passing), Paine, Jefferson (who has not been verified to belong), Goethe, &c. Freemasonry has provided me with an outlook and encouraged me in my personal studies, and shown me that there are people out there who are worthy of my trust and I wish to be worthy of theirs and never falter.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 19, 2010 17:00:42 GMT
I am sorry to hear that, one of my real hates is any form of bullying.
Fear is something I would hope that we do not have to encounter in our daily life but it is always there in the background I suppose.
The one thing I do believe that Freemasons should always do is make sure no one before, during or after a meeting is left alone. We are all hosts and a good host makes sure everyone at the party is taking part or is involved. It is hard work being a good host. Patrick you need to find your way to one of my meetings and if you find yourself in a dark corner with no one talking to you, someone from my Lodge will be due an a..ss kicking. I drum it into them at every opportunity, 'have a look round and make sure no one is alone'.
here it comes the inevitable joke. Did you know Davey Crocket has 3 ears, left ear, right ear and a wild frontier. [the things I will do to set up a gag]
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Post by 0tt0 on Mar 19, 2010 18:36:29 GMT
Looks like my thread got hijacked. Oh well, I think the more recent posts make it pretty clear that I shouldn't join. Thanks for the advice, everyone.
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Post by magusmasonica on Mar 19, 2010 19:18:25 GMT
Looks like my thread got hijacked. Oh well, I think the more recent posts make it pretty clear that I shouldn't join. Thanks for the advice, everyone. OttO, Hijacking of threads on Masonic fora is more common than the sun rising. I still say you should look into a "TO" lodge in your area. Love and Light,
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KNOs1s
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I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 19, 2010 19:33:51 GMT
It is good that you have figured it out now rather than later. Masonry is certainly not for everyone. I think there were many honest efforts made here to reply to your query. Threads do indeed get hijacked, although I do not see anything posted as irrelevant to your question, nor apparently do the mods. What part of your query remains unanswered or answered not to your satisfaction? It would be of extreme interest to all here. I think most of the posts were to attempt to honestly help you learn more, though they might not have been to your liking. I can understand that. It does occur that someone comes on a board and posts a few comments and then 'disappears' forever. Oddly, these identities when these identities are still 'not activated' (whatever that means). Can't be helped, I suppose. Travel well, Otto. I wish you and 'Patrick' the best on your travels. Looks like my thread got hijacked. Oh well, I think the more recent posts make it pretty clear that I shouldn't join. Thanks for the advice, everyone.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 19, 2010 20:22:43 GMT
Looks like my thread got hijacked. Oh well, I think the more recent posts make it pretty clear that I shouldn't join. Thanks for the advice, everyone. Well if your deterred that easily I would say you are probably right. But that could be said no matter what the subject. I certainly do no believe anyone should be talked into joining Freemasonry. If you have been given the impression that you are not wanted or indeed that anyone wishes to hijack your thread then I personally apologise, that is - was not the intent at all.
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Post by lauderdale on Mar 19, 2010 21:54:19 GMT
Otto, go away. Research, think about it, think about it again. Ask others if that is your way of doing things. Once you are happy and if you still wish to enter Freemasonry then go for it.
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KNOs1s
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I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 19, 2010 23:02:52 GMT
I liked your joke, by the way Brother Bill. I'm still slightly perplexed as to the sudden excitement at having a thread 'hijacked'. In this case, I just don't see it at all. Perhaps someone could explain it to me? Looks like my thread got hijacked. Oh well, I think the more recent posts make it pretty clear that I shouldn't join. Thanks for the advice, everyone. Well if your deterred that easily I would say you are probably right. But that could be said no matter what the subject. I certainly do no believe anyone should be talked into joining Freemasonry. If you have been given the impression that you are not wanted or indeed that anyone wishes to hijack your thread then I personally apologise, that is - was not the intent at all.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 19, 2010 23:26:52 GMT
I would agree with lauderdale, there is no rush.
My Jokes keep me young, they are the only thing I know that is older than me.
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KNOs1s
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I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 19, 2010 23:48:56 GMT
My Brother in a T.O. lodge assures me that it is not terribly different than a regular lodge. In fact, a uniform and the older ritual wording makes our lodge fairly consistent with a T.O. lodge in many ways.
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Post by magusmasonica on Mar 20, 2010 3:06:48 GMT
My Brother in a T.O. lodge assures me that it is not terribly different than a regular lodge. In fact, a uniform and the older ritual wording makes our lodge fairly consistent with a T.O. lodge in many ways. I would hope that they are significantly different as T.O. certification isn't inexpensive. Love and Light,
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KNOs1s
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I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 20, 2010 5:29:48 GMT
My Brother in a T.O. lodge assures me that it is not terribly different than a regular lodge. In fact, a uniform and the older ritual wording makes our lodge fairly consistent with a T.O. lodge in many ways. I would hope that they are significantly different as T.O. certification isn't inexpensive. Love and Light, They are not significantly different in ritual work. Much of it, as I have on good authority, deals with arrangement of lodge furniture and uniforms, and just taking Masonry 'more seriously'. As far as ritual, they are very close. We have lodge uniforms in one of the lodges and take our Masonry very seriously. As stated, members of our lodge are interested in looking into T.O. As such, we are interested in learning as much as possible. There are many that are willing to pay a reasonable amount to belong to a great lodge. It is important to ascertain if a T.O. lodge is specifically right for our lodge. I am good friends with several T.O. members, and at least two on the Masonic Restoration Foundation board. I am planning to visit a T.O. lodge, and am excited to see how it operates. A T.O. lodge is recommended to operate at $250-500 dues per year. That does not seem excessive, as it comes to about $20-40 per month. Local Kiwanis clubs can run at $100 a month.
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Post by magusmasonica on Mar 20, 2010 6:02:24 GMT
I would hope that they are significantly different as T.O. certification isn't inexpensive. Love and Light, They are not significantly different in ritual work. Much of it, as I have on good authority, deals with arrangement of lodge furniture and uniforms, and just taking Masonry 'more seriously'. As far as ritual, they are very close. We have lodge uniforms in one of the lodges and take our Masonry very seriously. As stated, members of our lodge are interested in looking into T.O. As such, we are interested in learning as much as possible. There are many that are willing to pay a reasonable amount to belong to a great lodge. It is important to ascertain if a T.O. lodge is specifically right for our lodge. I am good friends with several T.O. members, and at least two on the Masonic Restoration Foundation board. I am planning to visit a T.O. lodge, and am excited to see how it operates. A T.O. lodge is recommended to operate at $250-500 dues per year. That does not seem excessive, as it comes to about $20-40 per month. Local Kiwanis clubs can run at $100 a month. Of course ritual is not going to be that different as ritual is mandated by state Masonic Code. Basically state Preston-Webb with a COR attached to the front and a Chain Of Union tacked on the back. Love and Light,
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KNOs1s
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I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 20, 2010 6:04:09 GMT
They are not significantly different in ritual work. Much of it, as I have on good authority, deals with arrangement of lodge furniture and uniforms, and just taking Masonry 'more seriously'. As far as ritual, they are very close. We have lodge uniforms in one of the lodges and take our Masonry very seriously. As stated, members of our lodge are interested in looking into T.O. As such, we are interested in learning as much as possible. There are many that are willing to pay a reasonable amount to belong to a great lodge. It is important to ascertain if a T.O. lodge is specifically right for our lodge. I am good friends with several T.O. members, and at least two on the Masonic Restoration Foundation board. I am planning to visit a T.O. lodge, and am excited to see how it operates. A T.O. lodge is recommended to operate at $250-500 dues per year. That does not seem excessive, as it comes to about $20-40 per month. Local Kiwanis clubs can run at $100 a month. Of course ritual is not going to be that different as ritual is mandated by state Masonic Code. Basically state Preston-Webb with a COR attached to the front and a Chain Of Union tacked on the back. Love and Light, If the ritual is not that much different, what do you suppose the difference is? Really, P.W. work is not extremely different from what is revealed in the earlier extant rituals the earliest extant exposures and manuscripts. Most of the differences are additional, not subtractive.
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Post by magusmasonica on Mar 20, 2010 6:25:47 GMT
Of course ritual is not going to be that different as ritual is mandated by state Masonic Code. Basically state Preston-Webb with a COR attached to the front and a Chain Of Union tacked on the back. Love and Light, If the ritual is not that much different, what do you suppose the difference is? Really, P.W. work is not extremely different from what is revealed in the earlier extant rituals the earliest extant exposures and manuscripts. Most of the differences are additional, not subtractive. The difference between the "normal" states version of Preston-Webb and the T.O. version is that the T.O. version ads a COR in front and a Chain of Union in back. Love and Light,
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KNOs1s
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I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 20, 2010 6:39:15 GMT
If the ritual is not that much different, what do you suppose the difference is? Really, P.W. work is not extremely different from what is revealed in the earlier extant rituals the earliest extant exposures and manuscripts. Most of the differences are additional, not subtractive. The difference between the "normal" states version of Preston-Webb and the T.O. version is that the T.O. version ads a COR in front and a Chain of Union in back. Love and Light, You've been to a T.O. lodge, I assume? Chain of Union and a Chamber of Reflection is not unknown to a 'normal' Lodge. There is no prohibition of a COR or a Chain of Union, at least in my jurisdiction. For the extra $400 in dues, it should have something more than that. I'd be entirely willing to pay that price, even for the 'normal' lodges I now attend. As to uniforms, it has been suggested that black jeans, a nice shirt and leather vest might be appropriate depending on the lodge. As little as $10 for collars, and possibly regalia could be kept below a grand. That's peanuts. It's about the spirit, not the price.
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Post by magusmasonica on Mar 20, 2010 8:04:04 GMT
The difference between the "normal" states version of Preston-Webb and the T.O. version is that the T.O. version ads a COR in front and a Chain of Union in back. Love and Light, You've been to a T.O. lodge, I assume? Chain of Union and a Chamber of Reflection is not unknown to a 'normal' Lodge. There is no prohibition of a COR or a Chain of Union, at least in my jurisdiction. For the extra $400 in dues, it should have something more than that. I'd be entirely willing to pay that price, even for the 'normal' lodges I now attend. As to uniforms, it has been suggested that black jeans, a nice shirt and leather vest might be appropriate depending on the lodge. As little as $10 for collars, and possibly regalia could be kept below a grand. That's peanuts. It's about the spirit, not the price. I have not been in a T.O. lodge but I know the players and have done a lot of research on it. The "uniform" consists for full tux and tails. The lodge rooms are illuminated only by candlelight. The time in between degrees is lengthened as the candidate is expected to produce pieces of architecture etc. As far as a COR or a Chain of Union those things depend on the jurisdiction. A COR is forbidden under California Masonic Code unless in a TO lodge or by special dispensation. IMHO I find a COR being used with Preston Webb kind of strange seeing how Preston Webb never had it in the first place. Love and Light,
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KNOs1s
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I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Mar 20, 2010 13:48:16 GMT
I have not been in a T.O. lodge but I know the players and have done a lot of research on it. The "uniform" consists for full tux and tails. The lodge rooms are illuminated only by candlelight. The time in between degrees is lengthened as the candidate is expected to produce pieces of architecture etc. Your 'research' implies a dogmatic approach, when the fact is a bit more pliable. In one case, I have heard from a major 'player' on the Masonic Restoration board (on the Masonic Society website), it was suggested to a lodge they could wear black jeans, collared shirt and a leather vest. This was suggested to a lodge consisting primarily of Native Americans who were not made of money. It is up to the individual lodge to decide, and it is not a requirement to use a tux as a uniform. As stated, it's about the spirit, not the cash. We had a lodge room illuminated by candlelight. The only reason they stopped is for fire danger considerations. Not too unusual at all. Lodges who are not T.O. often light in this manner. vAs far as a COR or a Chain of Union those things depend on the jurisdiction. A COR is forbidden under California Masonic Code unless in a TO lodge or by special dispensation . Special dispensation is not impossible to receive, and is protocol to acquire. IMHO I find a COR being used with Preston Webb kind of strange seeing how Preston Webb never had it in the first place. Love and Light, Yes. In your opinion. I do not find it that strange. At all. I find it strange anyone does. The fact it is not expressly in Preston-Webb does not mean it is expressly verbotten. Practically any book describing Freemasonry has a description of a COR and its purpose.
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