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Post by lauderdale on Apr 10, 2010 8:53:41 GMT
To me as a Co-Mason this is WONDERFUL news! Acknowledgement to "John Dee" on TFM Forum for posting this news there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Grand Orient Opens to Women by Francois Koch April 9, 2010 www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societe/le-grand-orient-s-ouvre-aux-femmes_883416.htmlElectric shock in a very masculine Masonic landscape, the largest French obedience, 50,000 Brothers strong, officially recognized on Friday the freedom of the Lodges to initiate women. Will the Grand Orient become a mixed obedience? The Grand Orient, an almost three hundred years old federation of Lodges where only men had been fully initiated, regularly submitted the question to its annual assemblies in September, but a majority never emerged in favor of the right of Lodges to accept Sisters or to initiate women. This refusal appeared quite regressive, in view of the proportion of women, which has remained since 2000 at 17% of all French Freemasons. The current Grand Master, Pierre Lambicchi, chose to change the method, by not waiting for the new assembly of the Lodges in September, in two ways: 1. On January 21, 2010, Olivia Chaumont, a transsexual, was recognized as a Sister of the Grand Orient. This was an innovation, as the predecessors of Pierre Lambicchi had preferred to discreetly direct the Brothers who became women to the mixed or feminine Lodges. 2. On April 8, 2010, the Supreme Court of Masonic Justice (CSJM) ruled that the Lodges are free to initiate women without violating the General Regulations of the obedience. The CSJM was approached by Pierre Lambicchi himself 15 days ago, The Grand Master wished that it would consider the question posed by the Lodges that initiated six women a year ago. In spite of the disavowal by the majority of the Brothers in a vote of the assembly of September 2009, they persisted in arguing that they had the right to initiate whomever they wanted in their own group. In view of this leading decision by the CSJM, the six women initiated into the Grand Orient in a quasi clandestine manner could be officially recognized by the obedience. Other Sisters are sure to follow them. Will the Grand Orient become a mixed obedience? In practice, yes. Officially, no. "We are not in the regular manner a mixed obedience," Pierre Lambicchi explained to L'Express. A very Masonic subtlety to calm tensions on a controversial issue? A prudent statement about what, in the land of the Brothers of the three points, constitutes a small revolution.
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Post by magusmasonica on Apr 10, 2010 16:40:25 GMT
Fantastic! Now I wonder if those Brethren who where so unjustly removed will get reinstated?
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Post by billmcelligott on Apr 10, 2010 19:11:14 GMT
You can not have it both ways, the Government of this Order has made a decision that you applaud, they previously made a decision you did not like.
The same process has been used so if this is legitimate then so was the previous decision.
As I understood the expelled Bros. broke the rules, if the Grand Orient allows them back then that is just fine, but it does not make the expulsion unjust.
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Post by magusmasonica on Apr 11, 2010 0:22:10 GMT
You can not have it both ways, the Government of this Order has made a decision that you applaud, they previously made a decision you did not like. The same process has been used so if this is legitimate then so was the previous decision. As I understood the expelled Bros. broke the rules, if the Grand Orient allows them back then that is just fine, but it does not make the expulsion unjust. The mission statement of the GOdF is "absolute freedom of consciousness." That means that if it is within the individual lodge consciousness to allow women then so mote it be. The fact that those women and those loges where expelled previously was a violation of their own stated core principal. If it takes a court of law to uphold principle than so be it. May this create a ripple effect across Europe that gender segregation is ridiculous in the 21st century. In Love and Light,
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Post by magusmasonica on Apr 11, 2010 1:00:14 GMT
Brown vs. Board of Education.
We are all better off for it as it upheld virtue.
In Love and Light,
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Post by magusmasonica on Apr 11, 2010 1:08:26 GMT
Luckily for some, ridiculousness is not illegal, but it will be if lodge sovereignty continues to lose out and 'liberty of conscience' is run by courts. It would have been far better if the brothers came together in unity. Now, they are forced to give up their conscience for the dictates of an overweight bureaucracy. Gender inclusion is fine. Being jackbooted to agree and to lose your liberty of conscience and told 'it's liberty of conscience' when you're licking someone's boots is not. They had more than one occasion to actually live up to their self imposed statement of virtue. They refused. Sometimes the voice of conscious needs to come from outside the west gate. This was such a case and humanity will be better off for it. In Love and Light,
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Post by magusmasonica on Apr 11, 2010 1:13:44 GMT
They had more than one occasion to actually live up to their self imposed statement of virtue. They refused. Sometimes the voice of conscious needs to come from outside the west gate. This was such a case and humanity will be better off for it. In Love and Light, Then, it is not the 'liberty of conscience'. Period. Humanity is better off for owning their own minds. This is a travesty of Masonic justice, and humanity will be worse off for it. If it takes the court of law to stand against hypocrisy than so be it. The kid can't tend to the candy store. In Love and light,
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Post by magusmasonica on Apr 11, 2010 1:20:13 GMT
A new dawn has risen in the case of Masonic civil rights. Many may oppose it but they cannot stop the tide.
VIVAT!!!
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Post by magusmasonica on Apr 11, 2010 1:29:08 GMT
The majority opposed Brown vs. Board of Education too. Sometimes the state of liberty needs a kick in the head to get off of the bench. Now those Brethren so unjustly expelled for following their conscious and admitting women for the good of the Craft and the good of their lodge will get what they deserve, to once again be full fledged members in the Order that they love and are dedicated to. Now fathers can have the pride within the GOdF of being there hand in hand while their daughters are made Masons in due form. Congrats to Loge Combat on a job well done. Beautiful.
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Post by billmcelligott on Apr 11, 2010 1:42:04 GMT
The mission statement of the GOdF is "absolute freedom of consciousness." That means that if it is within the individual lodge consciousness to allow women then so mote it be. The fact that those women and those loges where expelled previously was a violation of their own stated core principal. If it takes a court of law to uphold principle than so be it. May this create a ripple effect across Europe that gender segregation is ridiculous in the 21st century. In Love and Light, Yes but your asking for the freedom of consciousness to be retrospective. You can not have it that only the people you agree with have this freedom of consciousness. I suspect there will be a lot of Lodges leaving GOdF using their freedom of consciousness. it is and will be their choice. But it seems to me to defy logic that a past misdemeanour is forgiven because 3 years later they change policy. They should have waited until now before they initiated women, then no problem. Quoting from The Grand Orient of the USA: Embracing the principle of gender equality, the Grand Orient of the United States of America recognizes both Mixed-Gender Free-Masonry (men and women) and Female Free-Masonry (all women). It is true that the 1723 Book of Constitutions of the Free-Masons excluded the entrance of women, but this was within the social milieu and clubbing practices of London common in 1723. That having been said, the best of recent academic scholarship has shown that in a number of situations, and at a variety of places, women have historically constituted a presence in Free-Masonry. And from the GOdF site: The Grand Orient de France is an organisation which is motivated by two great principles which are apparently contradictory : the respect for a tradition inherited from the founders of freemasonry and the search for progress for the improvement of Men and Society. Someone should write to the webmaster and get him to add 'and Women'.
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Post by magusmasonica on Apr 11, 2010 1:46:03 GMT
The mission statement of the GOdF is "absolute freedom of consciousness." That means that if it is within the individual lodge consciousness to allow women then so mote it be. The fact that those women and those loges where expelled previously was a violation of their own stated core principal. If it takes a court of law to uphold principle than so be it. May this create a ripple effect across Europe that gender segregation is ridiculous in the 21st century. In Love and Light, Yes but your asking for the freedom of consciousness to be retrospective. You can not have it that only the people you agree with have this freedom of consciousness. I suspect there will be a lot of Lodges leaving GOdF using their freedom of consciousness. it is and will be their choice. But it seems to me to defy logic that a past misdemeanour is forgiven because 3 years later they change policy. They should have waited until now before they initiated women, then no problem. Quoting from The Grand Orient of the USA: Embracing the principle of gender equality, the Grand Orient of the United States of America recognizes both Mixed-Gender Free-Masonry (men and women) and Female Free-Masonry (all women). It is true that the 1723 Book of Constitutions of the Free-Masons excluded the entrance of women, but this was within the social milieu and clubbing practices of London common in 1723. That having been said, the best of recent academic scholarship has shown that in a number of situations, and at a variety of places, women have historically constituted a presence in Free-Masonry. And from the GOdF site: The Grand Orient de France is an organisation which is motivated by two great principles which are apparently contradictory : the respect for a tradition inherited from the founders of freemasonry and the search for progress for the improvement of Men and Society. Someone should write to the webmaster and get him to add 'and Women'. It's more like freedom of consciousness to be absolute, as stated by their original principles. Should there be those lodges that leave great, more power to them. The desire of the few should always be sacrificed for the benefit of all. In Love and Light,
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Post by magusmasonica on Apr 11, 2010 1:54:53 GMT
It's more like freedom of consciousness to be absolute, as stated by their original principles. Should there be those lodges that leave great, more power to them. The desire of the few should always be sacrificed for the benefit of all. In Love and Light, In this case, the 'few' authorities have benefited to the sacrifice of all. It is an atrocity against the liberty of conscience. Just like a moldy Snickers bar; anyway you slice it, it comes up brown and smelly. Whatever dude, at this point your stance it is about as fruitful as yelling at that Snickers bar. What's done is done. Get off the tracks and yell at the train hoping to make it stop. In Love and Light,
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KNOs1s
Member
I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Apr 11, 2010 1:59:26 GMT
I hereby recant (some) of my earlier statements. I see that, if I read the article correctly, that all that is passed is "On April 8, 2010, the Supreme Chamber of Justice Masonic (CSJM) found that the boxes are free to initiate women without contravening the General Rules of obedience." IF this is true, it does not {seem} to place any requirement on the lodges either way. This I can applaud and support, though I do think those who initiated the women should remain expelled, and agree with Brother Bill. Dishonesty in such matters is not a Masonic virtue, and breaking a solemn oath to your lodge is reprehensible. Attack an issue head-on or not at all. Anything else is cowardice. The women themselves should to be allowed to remain, as they did not break any oaths. This is as I see it. The statements I made under a misinterpretation still stand, yet my understanding of matters is different. ;D I still stand by my statements that 'liberty of conscience' is no more and becomes vapid when it is forced by an authority. And Dude, my 'change of mind' (actually, a closer reading) is not due to you or your arguments in any way, just so you don't feel bad.
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Post by billmcelligott on Apr 11, 2010 2:16:19 GMT
Are you not one of the few ?
I don'r mean this as an argumentative response but it seems an odd phrase to use. Maybe a slip of the keyboard.
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KNOs1s
Member
I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Apr 11, 2010 2:33:10 GMT
Are you not one of the few ? I don'r mean this as an argumentative response but it seems an odd phrase to use. Maybe a slip of the keyboard. It's just a Spock quote. ;D
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Post by magusmasonica on Apr 11, 2010 2:34:16 GMT
Are you not one of the few ? I don'r mean this as an argumentative response but it seems an odd phrase to use. Maybe a slip of the keyboard. I am always in favor of self sacrifice. What is odd about that? Love and Light,
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KNOs1s
Member
I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Apr 11, 2010 2:36:14 GMT
Many are in favor of self-sacrifice when it's someone else doing the sacrificing.
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Post by billmcelligott on Apr 11, 2010 2:37:38 GMT
Mr. Spock said - 'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.'
Which is a completely different twist.
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KNOs1s
Member
I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Apr 11, 2010 2:38:43 GMT
Mr. Spock said - 'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.' Which is a completely different twist. That's a great quote and a great movie. ;D
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Post by magusmasonica on Apr 11, 2010 2:39:43 GMT
Many are in favor of self-sacrifice when it's someone else doing the sacrificing. That has what to do with the price of tea in China? Why go out of your way to start an argument?
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