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Post by vajranagini on Jan 6, 2012 6:02:39 GMT
I wouldn't say that I have been "amazed" by some of the stuff that you post around here but I can say that I am entertained. Don't you worry about me and what I may or may not know. The previous questions: What makes the "personal confirmation" correct and not delusion? Because it comes to one in a perfectly deliberate manner, couched in the language of symbols. If one has gone through the drill and gotten one's Qabalistic correspondences by heart and done the meditations, the "message' is perfectly clear and also explains things that have gone before and for which there was no explanation at all hy should any other person accept it? They can't. It has to come to THEM the same way. Like I said before: either you have had the experience or you have not. It's like LSD: There is an abyss of understanding between the "have hads' and the haven't hads" If it is true that it is an absolute fact but it can't be shared why are there folks attempting to share it? Because it is human nature to attempt to do so. But it's like trying to explain colour to a blind man. The significance of the saying "The secrets protect themselves" becomes VERY clear after one has tried to explain one's experiences to others!
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Post by rembrandt on Jan 6, 2012 6:45:28 GMT
Since it is entirely subjective my experiences are just as valid. Should my experiences and the possible observational bias be accepted by you as pure fact because I have had the experience? Hey, we are on page 10 of the thread. 1+0 = 1 so we are still on the first page of this thread. 1 = God so the first page holds all the secrets of God.
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Post by fractal3rd on Jan 6, 2012 8:15:52 GMT
Thanks for the replies guys. Ja me thinks the brain is a complex organ. I remember attending a neuro-science demonstration, my team leader volunteered to be part of the test - this guy hooked her up to a tiny machine. and asked her questions and we watched her brain activity on a screen, he stopped for a while and all of a sudden the activity spiked I mean off the charts - he asked what happened - and she said "I was thinking about running the comrades marathon next week and it really scared me" she had been training for 2 yrs for it. Now imagine what meditation and getting into the opposite state - relaxation can do – we are shutting off the logic centres. People always seem to have near death experiences or past life episodes when completely relaxing the left frontal lobe. Now I am unsure what to make of it all, but there are more near death experiences than past life reports. I read a NDE of a woman who met her dead mom and sister (only her sister was alive - or so she thought) turns out her dad kept it away from her while she was in hospital. How could she know? If those souls were indeed re-incarnated - then how did she see them? Like Rembrandt says - each of our experience shapes our beliefs - maybe if I saw my ‘past life’ I would believe (like you Vaj) maybe if I had a NDE I would believe that too, right now suffice to say ones experiences are ones beliefs and mine are… well mine. The one thing I do know is that there is a God and He must be so amused at our simple minds. And if He created us or the stuff that created us then He must love us dearly. My experiences have led me to believe that Jesus is that divinity and all that matters for me is that He cares. Also my experiences have led me to believe that Science is wonderful and we know very little of it or this 3rd dimension and even less about the 4th - and even less about our own brains, which create all the experiences we encounter. My point and I do have one is that we should experience as much in life as we can. Then perhaps we can have a panoramic perspective of things.
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 6, 2012 9:05:15 GMT
I wouldn't say that I have been "amazed" by some of the stuff that you post around here but I can say that I am entertained. Don't you worry about me and what I may or may not know. The previous questions: What makes the "personal confirmation" correct and not delusion? Because it comes to one in a perfectly deliberate manner, couched in the language of symbols. If one has gone through the drill and gotten one's Qabalistic correspondences by heart and done the meditations, the "message' is perfectly clear and also explains things that have gone before and for which there was no explanation at all hy should any other person accept it? They can't. It has to come to THEM the same way. Like I said before: either you have had the experience or you have not. It's like LSD: There is an abyss of understanding between the "have hads' and the haven't hads" If it is true that it is an absolute fact but it can't be shared why are there folks attempting to share it? Because it is human nature to attempt to do so. But it's like trying to explain colour to a blind man. The significance of the saying "The secrets protect themselves" becomes VERY clear after one has tried to explain one's experiences to others!A couple of points. Surely this is the entire crux of the term esoteric? And if it is so, it is not human nature that make you want to share your knowledge it is ego. Perhaps you would not find your self constantly having to justify what, who & why if that was a little less out there? There is no point shouting at a deaf man! Be content with who & what you are and your contentment will shine through. I believe the more one tries to defend themselves the more they open up thier failings but thats just me!
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Post by vajranagini on Jan 7, 2012 2:59:30 GMT
I wouldn't say that I have been "amazed" by some of the stuff that you post around here but I can say that I am entertained. Don't you worry about me and what I may or may not know. The previous questions: What makes the "personal confirmation" correct and not delusion? Because it comes to one in a perfectly deliberate manner, couched in the language of symbols. If one has gone through the drill and gotten one's Qabalistic correspondences by heart and done the meditations, the "message' is perfectly clear and also explains things that have gone before and for which there was no explanation at all hy should any other person accept it? They can't. It has to come to THEM the same way. Like I said before: either you have had the experience or you have not. It's like LSD: There is an abyss of understanding between the "have hads' and the haven't hads" If it is true that it is an absolute fact but it can't be shared why are there folks attempting to share it? Because it is human nature to attempt to do so. But it's like trying to explain colour to a blind man. The significance of the saying "The secrets protect themselves" becomes VERY clear after one has tried to explain one's experiences to others!A couple of points. Surely this is the entire crux of the term esoteric? And if it is so, it is not human nature that make you want to share your knowledge it is ego. I will remark that if I was so gosh-darned eager to 'flatter my ego' by "sharing", surely I would then have chosen a much more 'receptive" website? One with any number of people who would "listen with bated breath", and who would fawn all over me and beg to metaphorically sit at my feet, and of which there is no lack? Instead, you will note, I am HERE.Perhaps you would not find your self constantly having to justify what, who & why if that was a little less out there? Methinks you are PROJECTING. After all, it is an observable fact that people are most irritated by seeing their OWN traits reflected back to them in the behaviour of OTHERS.
And, I don't mind at all being made to "work" to "justify myself"; it's a good exercise in clarifying one's thoughts about a topic and in making it clear to OTHERS.There is no point shouting at a deaf man! You got that right! But I am counting on the fact of a FEW people on this site with 'ears to hear'! Be content with who & what you are and your contentment will shine through. Oooh, that's just so...so...profound! Got any more cliches you want to share with us?I believe the more one tries to defend themselves the more they open up thier failings but thats just me! I'll say.vajranagini has been banned from this Forum, any other member who changes another members posting name deliberatley will also be banned
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Post by vajranagini on Jan 7, 2012 3:14:23 GMT
Since it is entirely subjective my experiences are just as valid. So, you have had "experiences"? Maybe you should share them with us! Should my experiences and the possible observational bias be accepted by you as pure fact because I have had the experience? I have no idea what this statement is supposed to mean. You will have to make yourself more clear than you have here. And there is no avoiding 'observational bias' Haven't you ever heard of the Uncertainty principle? Hey, we are on page 10 of the thread. 1+0 = 1 so we are still on the first page of this thread. 1 = God so the first page holds all the secrets of God. Maybe it DOES; you never know!
I am surprised you haven't encountered the Sufi exercise of 'the "seven layers of meaning", (but then it has already been made quite plain that you are still a "seeker" and not a 'finder"). It is quite possible to hide numerous layers of esoteric meaning in an apparently trivial and insignificant statement or essay; I discovered this quite inadvertently and later on I found it was elucidated by Idries Shah in "The Sufis" as a "technique of Sufi", and Crowley also makes reference to this in his "Confessions".
Maybe you ought to lose that prejudiced attitude of yours and actually read the book; you might LEARN SOMETHING.
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Post by vajranagini on Jan 7, 2012 3:30:06 GMT
Thanks for the replies guys. Ja me thinks the brain is a complex organ. I remember attending a neuro-science demonstration, my team leader volunteered to be part of the test - this guy hooked her up to a tiny machine. and asked her questions and we watched her brain activity on a screen, he stopped for a while and all of a sudden the activity spiked I mean off the charts - he asked what happened - and she said "I was thinking about running the comrades marathon next week and it really scared me" she had been training for 2 yrs for it. Now imagine what meditation and getting into the opposite state - relaxation can do – we are shutting off the logic centres. People always seem to have near death experiences or past life episodes when completely relaxing the left frontal lobe. Now I am unsure what to make of it all, but there are more near death experiences than past life reports. I read a NDE of a woman who met her dead mom and sister (only her sister was alive - or so she thought) turns out her dad kept it away from her while she was in hospital. How could she know? If those souls were indeed re-incarnated - then how did she see them? Like Rembrandt says - each of our experience shapes our beliefs - maybe if I saw my ‘past life’ I would believe (like you Vaj) maybe if I had a NDE I would believe that too, right now suffice to say ones experiences are ones beliefs and mine are… well mine. The one thing I do know is that there is a God and He must be so amused at our simple minds. And if He created us or the stuff that created us then He must love us dearly. My experiences have led me to believe that Jesus is that divinity and all that matters for me is that He cares. Also my experiences have led me to believe that Science is wonderful and we know very little of it or this 3rd dimension and even less about the 4th - and even less about our own brains, which create all the experiences we encounter. My point and I do have one is that we should experience as much in life as we can. Then perhaps we can have a panoramic perspective of things. "Belief" is quite distinct from "knowledge". "Belief" implies doubt or uncertainty of the truth of whatever it is one "believes" in. "Knowledge" implies certainty. For my part, I KNOW that reincarnation is a fact. Why and how I know this (and many other things) as a fact would NOT satisfy anyone else, because the "proof" I received was geared to "me' and my personal biases and beliefs; thus , as I have said, 'the secrets protect themselves": I cannot persuade anyone "outside myself"' of its validity, and that is how it has to be.
Everyone who has a desire to "know" (and not just "believe") has to make this particular "journey of discovery" for themselves. And, once you have made it, when you meet OTHERS who have also made that journey successfully, you will feel a "kinship' with them!
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 7, 2012 9:43:21 GMT
To everyone on this Forum
I am normnally quite an easy going moderator, we try to let our mmbers express themselves and thier thoughts with a minimum of interference.
I hope most will see that my only venture into this thread was to try to point out to Vaj that if she was not so aggressive, loud and self egoistic she would do better. I did not do it in a rude way.
Having read her quoted reply to me. I am not surprised that she dismisses most of what I have said neither am I surprised at her crass attemp at sarcastic wit. However against The Forums rules she had quite deliberately insulted and been rude to me. This not about me it is about us all to change ones name and then use that name as a quoted source is damn right wrrong, rude and deliberate.
So as of today she is banned.
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Post by rembrandt on Jan 7, 2012 17:32:16 GMT
That is unfortunate
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Post by rembrandt on Jan 8, 2012 2:01:34 GMT
I am thick skinned. At her drivel has been preserved and not deleted. I think that it is good for that behavior to be preserved.
And you are just old and cranky.
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Post by fractal3rd on Jan 8, 2012 13:57:04 GMT
Ag shame man... O well I it think as masons we must all take care not to trample on thers feelings and beliefs. That sort of behaviour would not go unnoticed at lodge, it should not be any different at this forum.
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Post by whistler on Jan 9, 2012 21:27:34 GMT
Middlepillar - A Lauderable undertaking and I support you
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Post by neophytum on Mar 30, 2012 10:30:53 GMT
Good work admins! I was reading through this thread and was quite surprised at how aggressive she was replying to members. I'm surprised she wasn't banned sooner, really there is no need for such conflagratory remarks on a forum. Some interesting info in this thread anyhow, well at least for a newbie
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Alberich
Member
Supreme Superintendent of the Sublime Silver Shovel
Posts: 48
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Post by Alberich on Apr 1, 2012 13:57:26 GMT
I saw a lot of ad hominem arguments in this thread directed at her. Just because we dont like someone, doesnt mean they dont know what they are talking about. I should add it oesnt mean that they do... but please try to not just assume everyone we talk to that doesnt agree is an idiot. During her tenure on the board she aimed a good portion of ad hominem at various members of the forum. We are entrained to believe that those with whom we disagree are idiots or worse, because it's politically correct to believe otherwise. It's a nefarious mind control technique perfected by the media designed to force you to shut up, stop thinking, and just nod your silly noggin "yes", as well as to demonize various groups like "normal folks" by using fear and irrationality. Get used to the concept. So, when we get on forums, we can discard the concept of rational and informed discourse as well as the notion of providing proof for our bold statements, and simply invoke our own reality, and, if we get cornered, come out fighting or even ridicule/silence the opposition by evading the issue. Logic, facts and proof are for sissies like Anubis and Rembrandt, who are always whining about it. They should just read the op, shut up, man up, and agree -- because harmony rules. 395487214956 dude. I think that when you start talking about the OTO, Masons, Martinists, Rosicrucians, Sufis, Vampires, Aliens, Religion, and New Age stuff, that because this stuff is kind of special, there should be different rules for discussing it. IMO. It's just fun to read the different wild statements that people make, although I have to admit that it's also fun to read when people challenge them on it and they try to get out of it by using distractions and lame tactics. Anyway, who needs the Middle Chamber? Bor-ing. Is it over yet?
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Post by freemason58 on Mar 22, 2013 9:35:12 GMT
Oh, I don't care so much about the response, as the attitude and the ignorance with which it came. If one is going to come to an OTO thread and comment in a snotty arrogant tone, then one should at least justify one's arrogance by displaying at least a semblance of familiarity with the topic of the thread! Amazing how an Adept with awakened Kundalini falls apart so quickly due to a few simple comments or questions. One of the first lessons one learns as an EA is to subdue one's passions. Really? Funny, you seem to be a little over wrought...as well as lacking in the "perception" department; I'd hardly describe my response to your comments as "falling apart". But, of course you'd be HOPING I would do such a thing! >snicker< That way YOUR demonstration of your lack of understanding would be 'eclipsed". But, sorry, no such luck. But you wouldn't know that, not having been initiated into the Antient Mysteries of Freemasonry. Actually, I WOULD know, seeing as how the Rites are easily available for all to read. Have you ever meditated on the Masonic tracing boards? I have...the Royal Arch tracing board is my FAVOURITE.
And there is nothing particularly "exclusive" to Freemasonry about the EA teachings you mention; they are much the SAME in just about EVERY "Path" out there, Western AND Eastern. I think my probing has revealed much which has confirmed what others here have noticed as well. Really? That was "probing"? >snicker< Oooo, so what do you think was "revealed" by your 'cloak-and-dagger" tactics? >cough< That you know damn-all about anything OTO-and-Crowley-related, possibly? Or that you haven't a CLUE how to 'test or try' someone?
Yes, I am sure people ARE, um, "noticing"...I can hear the TITTERING from HERE. Sorry to intrude. Im new here and I thought this would be a good spot to find more Light on subjects of correspondences between Kabbalistic symbolism and the symbolism of Freemasonry, of which I am a FC Mason. But instead I find a jousting match going on between a Mason and one who is not an initiated Brother. A rather discouraging discovery. One comment I would proffer to the person who is not a Mason is that yes, one can find just about any Masonic literature out there that has ever been written and read all of it you can get your hands on, and parade oneself about yammering the catechisms and call yourself initiated. But it just isnt the same as being duly, truly, and rightfully initiated in a proper Lodge among and by Brothers of all degrees who have done the work and earned the right to take part in the endeavor at hand. It is, and means so much more to go about this stuff in the right way. The same applies to any Orders of The Mystery Traditions. Doing things the right way is referred to as that for a good reason. Especially where the Occult and Esotericism is concerned. It can be dangerous business. So, sorry to butt-in but I share this in a spirit of goodwill and not to condemn.
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Post by freemason58 on Mar 22, 2013 9:43:28 GMT
Okay, now I see that the person stirring the pot was not even a man ( no offense Ladies ). But of course could not be a Mason anyhow. I didnt realize women were on a Masonic Forum. Once again, no offense Ladies, but how could the ladies here have an opinion about being a Mason, a fraternal Brother, while being a woman ? Rather a contradiction of some kind going on here isnt there ? If I'm ignorant of something about this forum feel free to bring me up to speed. Thank you.
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Post by freemason58 on Mar 22, 2013 9:48:13 GMT
Okay, now I see that the person stirring the pot was not even a man ( no offense Ladies ). But of course could not be a Mason anyhow. I didnt realize women were on a Masonic Forum. Once again, no offense Ladies, but how could the ladies here have an opinion about being a Mason, a fraternal Brother, while being a woman ? Rather a contradiction of some kind going on here isnt there ? If I'm ignorant of something about this forum feel free to bring me up to speed. Thank you. Oops. I now see that Vajranagini ( I should have known by the name ) is female. Okay, Im not doing so good here. Would this Eastern Star Sorors as well ? Im confused.
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Post by freemason58 on Mar 22, 2013 10:08:38 GMT
Im sorry. I get it now; Co-Freemasonry.
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Post by beejay on Mar 22, 2013 11:10:15 GMT
>> between a Mason and one who is not an initiated Brother.
Since mainstream Masons are officially not in possession of the genuine secrets I am not sure how much value should be put on Masonic initiation. Was Moses initiated in a Masonic lodge?
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 23, 2013 2:18:31 GMT
> Since mainstream Masons are officially not in possession of the genuine secrets I am not sure how much value should be put on Masonic initiation.
To whose instruction ought we turn in our endeavours to recover the genuine secrets: Our Pleiadian Brethren or the all-knowing Russtafari?
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