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Post by hyperion on Jan 2, 2011 19:10:00 GMT
Some paths just lead to tetanus or worse yet no real growth whatsoever. Is it the path or those who travel? Not everything is right for everyone, timing is bad etc.
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Post by maximus on Jan 2, 2011 19:39:58 GMT
Initiation doesn't matter if you read Crowley. Even that doesn't matter. Action matters, real works. Speculate (guess) about what is going on. Brag about getting bootted from other forums. That surely establishes your credentials or your validity. Hmm, didn't you just say that you weren't going to BOTHER WITH ME anymore? Yet here you are, persistently stalking around after me like an annoying dingleberry! Being a CREEPY STALKER isn't doing anything for YOUR "credentials" or YOUR validity", so-called! Logging on to a forum in which you are constantly blathering hardly constitutes stalking.
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Post by vajranagini on Jan 2, 2011 22:46:57 GMT
Perhaps not, but constantly following me around and addressing hostile posts to me in threads after saying that one is "not gong to bother with me anymore" DOES constitute 'stalking". If I was doing the SAME THING to YOU, I bet you'd be on the PM pipe to "billmcelligott" in a SECOND!
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Post by billmcelligott on Jan 3, 2011 1:22:01 GMT
billmcelligott sees all, hears all and is all knowing. In short there is no where to hide.
This is an open forum and each member is entitled to post.
The mod team will decide if any posts are not in the interests of the forum as a whole. You may report posts that are not within the rules, but please check the rules first.
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Post by vajranagini on Jan 3, 2011 4:43:58 GMT
Ah, Brother Bill. Good to see you. Yes, "Post What Thou Wilt" shall be the whole of the Law!
I am largely indifferent to the hectorings of the poster with Sufic pretensions, but I did wish to point out the inconsistency of his words vis a vis his actions. This is considered a very serious fault in Sufi, where "adherence to truth" is considered to be the paramount priority of every candidate.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jan 3, 2011 5:36:46 GMT
As to if you see me , I am omnipresent.
I really do not care if one is Christian , Suffi, Muslim, Wiccan or anything else.
The forum is for the purpose of open debate on interesting subjects. Sometimes debates get heated, then you must rely of the forum Mods to keep things in good order.
This forum has always tried to be the most tollerant of the Masonic Forum, for example in one of my forum, revealer would not have been so lenient as I have been here. I was at Stephen Dafoe's forum when that ceased to be and other forum before that.
So I have been doing this a long, long time. Longer than some of the posters have been on this earth.
You are right Truth will conquer all.
Yes some of the posters will ride you if they think you are wrong, show them they are incorrect. That is the purpose of the forum. They already know I will not back down if they are unreasonable or unfair.
I have been tested over and over again. So fear not the very few rules here will be maintained and I suspect that is why you like the forum , because there are many forum where you would not get such Freedom of speech.
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Post by rembrandt on Jan 3, 2011 5:43:38 GMT
All will bow to the POWER of our DEAR and GREAT brother Bill. (Happy new year amigo).
My pretentions know few bounds. For example I make the best pasta sauce on the planet and my grand mother's fried chicken is the best ever fried. Of course this is pretense as I have never offered you a piece and you cannot know personally. I can promise that there is no special OTO communion juices included in the mix.
"Pretenstions" maybe, but do you know. Have you spent time in the presence of a true Sufi master? I have, many years actually. If you had the chance to speak with my teacher about my faults calling BS on people that were speaking BS would not be one of them. I have several that my wife could outline in detail. You are not equipped to detail them. No matter the PIN DROP. Of course all you have to do is understand Idries Shah without examining anything else. I recommend the Secret of Secrets by Abdul Qadir al-Gilani. It would be good for anyone interested inf Tassawuf. I can also recommend a book written by es-Seyyid es-Shaykh Taner Ansari entitled The Sun Will Rise in the West. It is one of the finest books in the English language on the subject. I have had the pleasure of this great man's friendship. I can also recommend The Knowing Heart by Shaykh Kabir Helminski. Both texts are valuable. I spent an all too short time with Shaykh Kabir Helminski at a gathering a few years back. A good man indeed. If you want to know about it you should learn about it from true masters instead of demanding answers from a meer seeker.
My faults are my own, anything good that is heard from me is because of the Most High - only the mistakes are mine.
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Post by vajranagini on Jan 4, 2011 5:25:38 GMT
The Third Degree of OTO talks about Mansur el Hallaj, the great Sufi martyr who was condemned to death for heresy; he asserted that he, himself was the Truth, while in an 'ecstatic" state. Another Sufi master got himself into a lot of trouble when he asserted that an "inner pilgrimage to Mecca" was all that was necessary. It is said that "any step forward in morality must be immoral to begin with"; it would seem that any step forward in religion must defy religious norms. Risky business, that! If Hallaj had made his assertion on the Internet, nobody would have been able to get to him as easily!
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Post by rembrandt on Jan 4, 2011 14:40:30 GMT
al-Hallaj was treated quite roughly. Martin Luther got himself into some trouble too.
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Post by vajranagini on Jan 6, 2011 5:14:18 GMT
I'd say that compared tio el-Hallaj, Martin Luther got off quite lightly!
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Post by rembrandt on Jan 6, 2011 15:30:23 GMT
side note of possible interest. There is a translation of book by Ahmed Rifa'i available or soon to be available. Actually it is two books in one cover. "Guidance to Mysticism" by Ahmed Rifa'i and "The Secret of Secrets" by Abdul Qadir el-Gelani.
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Post by vajranagini on Jan 7, 2011 4:15:30 GMT
Have you ever read "Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson?"
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Post by rembrandt on Jan 7, 2011 4:30:33 GMT
Yes I have.
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Post by themaddervish on Feb 13, 2011 14:49:35 GMT
The Third Degree of OTO talks about Mansur el Hallaj, the great Sufi martyr who was condemned to death for heresy; he asserted that he, himself was the Truth, while in an 'ecstatic" state. Another Sufi master got himself into a lot of trouble when he asserted that an "inner pilgrimage to Mecca" was all that was necessary. It is said that "any step forward in morality must be immoral to begin with"; it would seem that any step forward in religion must defy religious norms. Risky business, that! If Hallaj had made his assertion on the Internet, nobody would have been able to get to him as easily! O.T.O. knows NOTHING about Sufism. I was in William Blake Oasis for 3 years and I have been a member of 3 different Sufi Orders. I am both a practicing Muslim and a Freemason. You can talk and talk about Sufism as a Thelemite but in the end, your people are still having orgies at their get togethers (see? I know...), getting high on all kinds of drugs, having their relationships collapsing left and right...you have no self - mastery. What use is it if you talk to jinn? So what? You "summoned" something and established communication. So what??? What good does it do most Thelemites in life? It's just another addiction to the ego. And in the end, I have seen the results in O.T.O. Please...don't even begin to speak of Mansur 'Ibn al Hallaj and his experience in fana. What do you know about that? It was his own Sufi Shaykh who gave the order of execution! Did you know that? And why? Because he breathed the Secret! This is why the pool of his blood formed the 100th name of the Beloved, "ALLAH." on the floor, in Arabic. There is a hint of this in Crowley's "There is no God but MAN," but Crowley's inner understanding is flawed. The droplet is not the Ocean. Once divided from the source it acquires completely different qualities and even in REMEMBRANCE (Dhikr, the meditation of Sufism actually means "Remembrance" and this is why...) of ALLAH one only catches a glimpse of what came before the Covenant of "Alastu bi Rabbikun." Even in fana, this is only a glimpse and one not to be divulged to the profane for reasons such as this: that you get people with lofty goals driven by their egos to understand with their little, limited minds what can only be grasped by spirit. Crowley imagined that O.T.O. would someday be a HUGE, worldwide Masonic institution. O.T.O. is the laughing stock of Masonry. It will NEVER be accepted as a part of CLIPSAS. Even the most open minded Masons of Memphis Misraim find it an embarassment. And the ones who do not have either never been in O.T.O. to know all about their stupid sex and drug orgies or cover them up as a "part of the path of the seeker." And THAT is a load of horse crap, finely served on the plate of the Thelemite; gobbled up as he or she proudly asks for more.
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Post by nventr on Feb 23, 2011 17:47:57 GMT
The Third Degree of OTO talks about Mansur el Hallaj, the great Sufi martyr who was condemned to death for heresy; he asserted that he, himself was the Truth, while in an 'ecstatic" state. Another Sufi master got himself into a lot of trouble when he asserted that an "inner pilgrimage to Mecca" was all that was necessary. It is said that "any step forward in morality must be immoral to begin with"; it would seem that any step forward in religion must defy religious norms. Risky business, that! If Hallaj had made his assertion on the Internet, nobody would have been able to get to him as easily! O.T.O. knows NOTHING about Sufism. I was in William Blake Oasis for 3 years and I have been a member of 3 different Sufi Orders. I am both a practicing Muslim and a Freemason. You can talk and talk about Sufism as a Thelemite but in the end, your people are still having orgies at their get togethers (see? I know...), getting high on all kinds of drugs, having their relationships collapsing left and right...you have no self - mastery. What use is it if you talk to jinn? So what? You "summoned" something and established communication. So what??? What good does it do most Thelemites in life? It's just another addiction to the ego. And in the end, I have seen the results in O.T.O. Please...don't even begin to speak of Mansur 'Ibn al Hallaj and his experience in fana. What do you know about that? It was his own Sufi Shaykh who gave the order of execution! Did you know that? And why? Because he breathed the Secret! This is why the pool of his blood formed the 100th name of the Beloved, "ALLAH." on the floor, in Arabic. There is a hint of this in Crowley's "There is no God but MAN," but Crowley's inner understanding is flawed. The droplet is not the Ocean. Once divided from the source it acquires completely different qualities and even in REMEMBRANCE (Dhikr, the meditation of Sufism actually means "Remembrance" and this is why...) of ALLAH one only catches a glimpse of what came before the Covenant of "Alastu bi Rabbikun." Even in fana, this is only a glimpse and one not to be divulged to the profane for reasons such as this: that you get people with lofty goals driven by their egos to understand with their little, limited minds what can only be grasped by spirit. Crowley imagined that O.T.O. would someday be a HUGE, worldwide Masonic institution. O.T.O. is the laughing stock of Masonry. It will NEVER be accepted as a part of CLIPSAS. Even the most open minded Masons of Memphis Misraim find it an embarassment. And the ones who do not have either never been in O.T.O. to know all about their stupid sex and drug orgies or cover them up as a "part of the path of the seeker." And THAT is a load of horse crap, finely served on the plate of the Thelemite; gobbled up as he or she proudly asks for more. Would you be available to give this speech to the Sufi's in my area? Never mind. They are truly a hopeless bunch.
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Post by nventr on Feb 23, 2011 21:17:08 GMT
I wonder why these practices have not been dubbed obsolete when the knowledge of hydraulics and pneumatics is so wide spread. I'm sure there could be some intellectual symbolism created to give the same teachings.
In this way, the sexual hangups, lusts, and public displays can be by-passed. Not to mention, the degradation of women. (They make their bed, so I guess they have to lie in it.)
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Post by corab on Mar 2, 2011 21:43:19 GMT
Pity Thelemapedia is down - I would have recommended our learned friend take his(?) expertise there!
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Post by rembrandt on Mar 3, 2011 3:10:16 GMT
Is there something of merit in OTO?
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Post by maat on Mar 6, 2011 22:06:34 GMT
And THAT is a load of horse crap, finely served on the plate of the Thelemite; gobbled up as he or she proudly asks for more. lol, tell us how you really feel. btw, I liked reading about the sex orgies. Probably explains a bit about how you present yourself. Orgies are a waste of the very energy you need to raise yourself to the higher levels of consciousness masons profess to seek.
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Post by happyzealot on Mar 17, 2011 6:32:16 GMT
Perhaps, but they're great for burning calories.
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