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Post by sammy on Apr 5, 2011 12:17:03 GMT
Thank you, Sammy, for that bit of Masonic truth! I actually got tears in my eyes when I read what you said! You are most welcome! Thank you for the compliment, im glad I could help.
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Post by jayman on Apr 5, 2011 20:17:54 GMT
I take extreme exception to your (untrue) allegation that my husband "broke his obligations"; I in fact ALREADY KNEW all about this Masonic token and its particular significance BEFORE I even MET HIM. It was not HE who told me anything about it; when I found his token I didn't even have to ask him about it! I take extreme exception to you claiming to "know all about" a group you have never been a member of.
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Post by sammy on Apr 5, 2011 22:42:19 GMT
All she claimed to "know" was that it was a token handed out after learning a degree. All was not included in her statements.
I also am not a member, but have learned much of the history and even practices (im good at piecing things together). If you suspect someone of breaking thier oaths, is this realy the place to bring that out? Im sure there is some procedure for such acts.
I think Jayman that the only thing to bring you out of this one is to leave it alone, or appologize. You just simply didnt know the whole truth.
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 6, 2011 1:17:04 GMT
All she claimed to "know" was that it was a token handed out after learning a degree. All was not included in her statements. Exactly right. That's what I DID say: that I knew it was a Masonic token and that it was connected with the HRA degree.I also am not a member, but have learned much of the history and even practices (im good at piecing things together). Yes, I also am good at "putting together the pieces", especially since I am very conversant with the Qabalah. You may want to check out Hermetic Qabalah, Sammy; you sound like a GOOD CANDIDATE.If you suspect someone of breaking thier oaths, is this realy the place to bring that out? Im sure there is some procedure for such acts. I think Jayman that the only thing to bring you out of this one is to leave it alone, or appologize. You just simply didnt know the whole truth. There's a LOT he 'doesn't know". But he doesn't let THAT minor obstacle stop him!
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Post by rembrandt on Apr 7, 2011 5:53:38 GMT
Nor do non-masons allow the lack of experience to interfere with their proclamations.
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Post by sammy on Apr 7, 2011 14:27:42 GMT
Nor do non-masons allow the lack of experience to interfere with their proclamations. Perhaps we should take back all that non-masons have done and said within checkered ears. Ben Franklin might not mean alot to you, but he was 1 among many. He showed that to his country in every way he could, its the thought of being master of your own board he fought for. You might think I need to kill my old self and be reborn into what you want. I However have done so more times then I can count, and not for only God. Only one has paid off in the end though, and it has always been my light in the darkness. It shouldnt be suprising to you that people learned history. An act is done then percieved, the latter is not bias.
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Post by rembrandt on Apr 8, 2011 0:21:10 GMT
You continue to labor under the mistaken assumption that I want you to be a certain way. I promise, I am not too concerned with how you are or what you are. Now that we have that dodge out of the way you do lack a very critical quality to know much about Freemasonry. You are not a Mason. You lack the experience and the corresponding direct knowledge. You can take this as a personal attack, it is not.
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Post by sammy on Apr 8, 2011 1:19:15 GMT
You continue to labor under the mistaken assumption that I want you to be a certain way. I promise, I am not too concerned with how you are or what you are. Now that we have that dodge out of the way you do lack a very critical quality to know much about Freemasonry. You are not a Mason. You lack the experience and the corresponding direct knowledge. You can take this as a personal attack, it is not. I never claimed to be a scholar of masonry or even vaguely familair. From what you said, I couldnt possibly know anything about it (which was the only time it was mentioned in regards to me). I said acts were percieved, and that includes masonry. In the subject at hand both the mason and non-mason were mistaken. Because one is not a member you got your easy path, and skipped down it merrily. Was there a difference back when it was to the gallows? This was the consequence of breaking your oaths at one time. The result changes but the acts stay the same.
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Post by rembrandt on Apr 8, 2011 2:42:31 GMT
If I may ask sir, what is your interest in and/or connection your connection to Masonry?
"In the subject at hand both the mason and non-mason were mistaken. Because one is not a member you got your easy path, and skipped down it merrily. Was there a difference back when it was to the gallows? This was the consequence of breaking your oaths at one time. The result changes but the acts stay the same."
Which easy path is it that you speak of?
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Post by sammy on Apr 8, 2011 12:39:22 GMT
Youve read my posts as much or more then anyone Rembrandt. Why dont you tell me what youve seen me interested in. To me a masonic mind is just as pertinent as a spiritual mind ( I do alot of posting on spiritual websites too). Infact that is where I know Nventr from. I would stand for any mind if they are being wronged. If I was to voice my interest I would say "change" is what im interested in.
One is a mason, one isnt. Easy.
To me, were all human and nothing defines that further. As I said the perception of acts is not bias. Walls have holes and holes have ears.
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Post by sammy on Apr 8, 2011 13:31:05 GMT
Human is the center of this conversation. You are cutting a line in that understanding so you can see the center you want. You can cut all you want but you will never sever the core reality. Its you as much as me, as much as anyone. An oath is a cut, as well as my personal goals are cuts. Were all trying to see the center. Is either cut a clear window to the center?
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Post by sid on Apr 8, 2011 23:02:07 GMT
Human is the center of this conversation. You are cutting a line in that understanding so you can see the center you want. You can cut all you want but you will never sever the core reality. Its you as much as me, as much as anyone. An oath is a cut, as well as my personal goals are cuts. Were all trying to see the center. Is either cut a clear window to the center? You are looking at the manifestation of energy in a physical form/shape. There are four points of entry. The centre is everywhere. 'The opening of the stone.'
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Post by jayman on Apr 9, 2011 0:41:08 GMT
All she claimed to "know" was that it was a token handed out after learning a degree. All was not included in her statements. I also am not a member, but have learned much of the history and even practices (im good at piecing things together). If you suspect someone of breaking thier oaths, is this realy the place to bring that out? Im sure there is some procedure for such acts. I think Jayman that the only thing to bring you out of this one is to leave it alone, or appologize. You just simply didnt know the whole truth. Deleted improper comment - warning !!Try again son. I don't believe you nor Vaj
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 9, 2011 1:07:52 GMT
Actually if one is a Hermetic Qabalist, one DOES in fact "know more about Freemasonry than Freemasons." Most Freemasons I have met can do nothing more than "parrot" what they were TOLD in "Freemason class", and if one introduces the concept of simple MEDITATION on Masonic symbols, one is usually looked on as as if one had suddenly grown an extra head. Yet, it is well known among esotericists that symbols will reveal themselves through meditation on them; that is in fact is one of the BEST ways to "learn' the Tree of Life.: throuhg "Path meditation". I have in fact doen a GREAT DEAL of meditation in Masonic symbols; even just and hour a day contemplating the Square and Compass alone gives one an insight into the inner current of Freemasonry that hours of mundane "Freemason classes" will never bestow.
Actually, Jayman, I must say, I am FLATTERED that you don't believe me when I say "Nobody told me anything about the HRA token" ; that shows me that I DO know something about it, since you are firmly convinced my husband "broke his oaths". In a roundabout way you are saying "You could only know what you know by having gotten it directly from a Freemason".
That's not true in THIS case, but then I am not "just anyone", either. I only know personally of ONE other woman (and NO Freemasons) who have done any kind of meditative work on the symbols of Freemasonry (I have done a VERY great deal of it, as in "months") so I can forgive you for being suspicious and doubtful!
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Post by sammy on Apr 9, 2011 13:13:02 GMT
Human is the center of this conversation. You are cutting a line in that understanding so you can see the center you want. You can cut all you want but you will never sever the core reality. Its you as much as me, as much as anyone. An oath is a cut, as well as my personal goals are cuts. Were all trying to see the center. Is either cut a clear window to the center? You are looking at the manifestation of energy in a physical form/shape. There are four points of entry. The centre is everywhere. 'The opening of the stone.' Very interesting sid. I had considered it "the same as always" at the center. Only one home, with 4 doors. With no physical limits. Perhaps he is just trying to fill in the blanks. and letting us choose with what. Un-bias seems out of place for the manifestation of love. Perhaps he has to be with humans. Whos side do you take when both sides are wrong? Just make the basic requirements and wait.
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Post by sammy on Apr 9, 2011 13:14:46 GMT
All she claimed to "know" was that it was a token handed out after learning a degree. All was not included in her statements. I also am not a member, but have learned much of the history and even practices (im good at piecing things together). If you suspect someone of breaking thier oaths, is this realy the place to bring that out? Im sure there is some procedure for such acts. I think Jayman that the only thing to bring you out of this one is to leave it alone, or appologize. You just simply didnt know the whole truth. deleted by modTry again son. I don't believe you nor Vaj I had also suggested you leave it alone...
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Post by jayman on Apr 9, 2011 18:38:05 GMT
deleted by modTry again son. I don't believe you nor Vaj I had also suggested you leave it alone... You win Sammy. You and Vaj can have this site all to yourselves. There are no masons left posting here anyway. You and Vaj have pretty much turned away any remaining masons that Leo and Brad did not drive away. So have fun. A masonic forum populated by 2 non-masons. Enjoy.
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 9, 2011 19:47:47 GMT
Well hey, this board wasn't exactly hopping prior to this...but I don't think there will be ANY trouble getting it going BIG TIME...lotsa interesting topics to comment on, and lots of opportunity to offer FOOD for Masonic thought...in fact, I am quite sure that Freemasonry is due for a BIG rebirth. I have seen positive changes in Freemasonry as a whole ever since I "caught the bug" in Year 2000; back when, I was reading Freemasonic magazines with articles bewailing their moribund status of Freemasonry in general; now I am seeing reports happily reporting that membership in Masonic Lodges is INCREASING. I myself may not be a Freemason, but I am DEFINITELY part of the SPIRITUAL CURRENT which is BEHIND Freemasonry, which is open to all who are able to find it!
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Post by sammy on Apr 10, 2011 12:02:01 GMT
I had also suggested you leave it alone... You win Sammy. You and Vaj can have this site all to yourselves. There are no masons left posting here anyway. You and Vaj have pretty much turned away any remaining masons that Leo and Brad did not drive away. So have fun. A masonic forum populated by 2 non-masons. Enjoy. Not realy sure what I won here... Like I said it was a mistake. It was up to you not to make that a loss.
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Post by rembrandt on Apr 10, 2011 22:18:41 GMT
I am going to have to side with Jayman on this. Have at it. I won't be leaving entirely. I just won't participate much in threads that have nothing to do with Masonry.
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