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Post by billmcelligott on Apr 25, 2011 14:10:01 GMT
Well you should post more often, I agree symbolism is just what it says on the tin.
Whatever it means to that person.
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Post by macb on Apr 25, 2011 16:12:40 GMT
Well you should post more often, I agree symbolism is just what it says on the tin. Whatever it means to that person. Thank you , Bro. Bill , I will post more often when I see a thread that "strikes my fancy" . I have always found it is better to keep my mouth shut (or fingers off the keyboard) and just soak it in and learn . This thread has went on for 5 pages (sometimes heated) over something as simple and trivial as an old "Mark Masters" coin with a Mason's personal Mark on it . We have coins similar to the OP's picture in my York Rites museum (where my coin now sits) . We no longer use those nice coins and use a cheaper type , but at the end of the day this is all it is , a Mason's personal coin .
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 25, 2011 22:27:13 GMT
vajranagini did it serve any purpose to say ' you meant 'The Emperors New Clothes' ? Other than to point out to the reader that you had a better or higher level of knowledge than I did. you could have just accepted that the point was made and move on. but instead of tackle the issue your first thought was to put down the education level of the poster. Actually, I meant NO SUCH THING. That was YOUR interpretation of what I said. "The Emperor's New Clothes" is a CHILD'S FABLE, and not anything connected to 'higher levels of education", The fact that I preferred BOOKS to TV as a child is merely a reflection of my own preferences in personal entertainment, and no reflection intended on your educational level.It is a common argument tactic. if the opposing advocate is stupid then I must appear to be clever. Hmm, again, that's YOUR take on what I said...I'd say you have a bit of a hang-up in this regard! I myself have only a high-school diploma and NO "higher education" other than what I have picked up over the years from my extensive reading...probably the main thing I have to my advantage is that I can read upwards of 3,500 words per minute. 'Clever Boots' derived from the term 'Clever clogs' 17th Century mill workers used the term clogs , wooden Clogs would have been more in use at this time. as the industrial revolution progressed it turned into 'Boots' as in 'Sly Boots' So, does it refer to a "smart-alecky know-it all" or does it have another connotation I am not aware of? ;DNo problem with talking about Freemasonry and having opinions that are at variance, no problem at all. That is what we are here for. Sure, no single Masonic body has rule over any other, the ritual, the performance, the chronicles may be very different. What should not change is the core belief. My old pal Theron in my opinion said it best, 'It is not about me changing them, it is about me changing me'. So in short it matters little who is right and who is wrong, what matters is what effect has it had on you. P.S. ... In 2009, Grand Master Daniels wrote: "When the Grand Lodge of Canada was formed in 1855, English Emulation Ritual was adopted and it has been maintained in its purity with very minor alterations in the subsequent one hundred and fifty-four years."
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 25, 2011 22:35:50 GMT
We still haven't figured out about the scissors! I am curious to know whether this was some sort of token carried by DDGMs of Lodges connected with sewing and tailoring...Windtimber has not responded to my previous post yet... Hello all , I have spent a long time reading through this forum and thought I would finally create an account . Yes , this question has already been answered . This is nothing more than the "Mark" of the owner of said coin . Take the mark on my coin when I became a Mark Master , I worked on the river as a towboater , I was a pilot/captain , so there is a ship/boats "steering" wheel , before that I was an engineer , so over top of the wheel are crossed wrenches , and before that I was a deckhand so the wheel & crossed wrenches has a lock line (rope) encircling them . It was my trade that I loved so I used it as my "Mark" and this is what this Mason did with his , he used the tools of his trade as his "Mark" . And more than likely this Mason had his coin engraved professionally , as I too had to send my coin off to be professionally engraved . It now hangs in a frame at my York Rite bodies with other coins with unusual "Marks" . Ah, I see! Thank you for clearing that up. I admit to not knowing much about Mark Masonry ; I don;'t believe I have ever seen an actual "Mason's Mark". I had some idea that they would be much simpler in form; after all, they were originally meant to be carved in stone! But it would make sense that "speculative" Masons would have more elaborate "marks". So, have you taken the "Ark Mariner" Degree yet?
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Post by windtimber on Apr 25, 2011 22:39:14 GMT
Awwwwwww, rats! macb gave it away. Now we can't watch the various speculations.
Of course, those blobs and the pot on the right are still unidentified...how about we let 'em speculate on those for while?
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Post by billmcelligott on Apr 26, 2011 1:24:56 GMT
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Post by billmcelligott on Apr 26, 2011 1:46:58 GMT
vajranagini Actually, I meant NO SUCH THING. That was YOUR interpretation of what I said. "The Emperor's New Clothes" is a CHILD'S FABLE, and not anything connected to 'higher levels of education", The fact that I preferred BOOKS to TV as a child is merely a reflection of my own preferences in personal entertainment, and no reflection intended on your educational level.conversations with you are like talking to a used car salesman, you know you should walk away, but you just want to hear what else the guy has to say. not at all, I have been doing this for I suspect as long as you have been on this planet, i know every little debating trick in the book. OK lets go with that There are posters who want to learn, there are posters who want to teach , there are posters who think they know all the answers. The most worthy posters are those who say, 'I don't know, what do you think'. Now you can read 10,000 words a minute but if you don't understand them, it is not doing you much good. Maybe slow down and listen from time to time. I would rather someone read 35 words a minute and understand them all, is that not what I have tried to say. For many years i have said the true meaning of Freemasonry is in the ritual, unfortunately while many search the libraries for the meaning of life, life passes by. Freemasonry is the most simple of ideas, it is people who make it complicated, just be a good person. The only thing in this universe that you have control over is you. Use that power wisely.
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 26, 2011 4:47:30 GMT
conversations with you are like talking to a used car salesman, you know you should walk away, but you just want to hear what else the guy has to say. You are not the first person to tell me that. not at all, I have been doing this for I suspect as long as you have been on this planet, i know every little debating trick in the book. Communicating the spirit of Freemasonry, you mean? I will tell you a little story about how my eyes were opened to Freemasonry:
My grandfather was very proud to be a Freemason; I understand he loved to write letters to Masons all over the world. He was an RCMP police magistrate to the northwestern British Columbia area; (in fact ,he was 'raised" in Quesnel) I like to think the spirit of Freemasonry came to me through him; in fact, I have his aprons and his Past Master's jewel, exquisitely hand-engraved, and commemorating his Lodge's 50th anniversary. I know all this because my mother told me so; I had been inspired to ask her about my Masonic grandfather after reading "The Hiram Key"My mother had kept them all those years; had I not read "The Hiram Key", I would never have known of this curious and very much living legacy of mine!OK lets go with that There are posters who want to learn, there are posters who want to teach , there are posters who think they know all the answers. The most worthy posters are those who say, 'I don't know, what do you think'. But isn't that what I just said, in effect? I asked you a question whose answer you seemed qualified to provide: does the expression 'clever clogs" mean "smart-alecky know-it- all", or does it mean something else? Now you can read 10,000 words a minute but if you don't understand them, it is not doing you much good. That being the case, what would be the point of even subjecting yourself to the text? How many people do you personally know of know of who have read Manley P. Hall's "Secret Teachings of All Ages" at least 7 times from cover to cover? Well, I am one of them.
I also plowed my way through Mackey's. (once) and A. Crowley's "Confessions"(many times; the book is , in between the sleazy degrading exploits of a degenerate British roue and sodomite, practically an [unwritten]Qabalistic textbook.)Maybe slow down and listen from time to time. I would rather someone read 35 words a minute and understand them all. That. Being. So. You. Better. Go. Back. And. Read. What. I. Have. Written. One. More. Time.For many years i have said the true meaning of Freemasonry is in the ritual, unfortunately while many search the libraries for the meaning of life, life passes by. Freemasonry has to do with what Buddhists think of as "Dharma". and the Egyptians thought of as "Ma'at." I have spoken elsewhere of the ancient 'pact" that as long as there are 36 "Righteous Men" on the face of the earth, God will not destroy humanity. it is interesting to note that Osiris, one of the earliest of Egyptian Deities, was known as 'the embodiment of the "Righteous King".Freemasonry is the most simple of ideas, it is people who make it complicated, just be a good person. The only thing in this universe that you have control over is you. Use that power wisely. "Ma'at" (i.e "Truth") is a Path like any other; in fact in the degenerate "Black Aeon" of Hindu mythology,i.e the present time, the great Sufi Ramakrishna Paramahansa declared that "Truth is the best spiritual practice for the Black Aeon."
Freemasonry is meant to "ensure the seeds of righteousness are sown in every man's heart", thus it constitutes a legitimate (and most potent) spiritual path in its own right.
It is certain that Shri Ramakrishna knew of and discoursed on Freemasonry; I received this assurance in reading a devotee's statement that Ramakrishna had gone to the Beadon Gardens in Calcutta to "see some Masonic symbols". It would be of great interest to me to know what the Master said to the attending Freemasons; this surely had to have been an arranged encounter!
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Post by macb on Apr 26, 2011 9:15:31 GMT
Awwwwwww, rats! macb gave it away. Now we can't watch the various speculations. Of course, those blobs and the pot on the right are still unidentified...how about we let 'em speculate on those for while? Lol , I'm sorry . I can not see the "blobs" very well in the photo , but I may find a coin in our Masonic Museum with these same markings . If I find the answer , I will withhold it as not to spoil the fun .
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Post by sammy on Apr 26, 2011 12:49:03 GMT
Awwwwwww, rats! macb gave it away. Now we can't watch the various speculations. Of course, those blobs and the pot on the right are still unidentified...how about we let 'em speculate on those for while? Nothing said has debunked my guess that it was made for a tailor, or as I put it "has something to do with tailoring". Combined with the current knowledge I dont see how he/she couldnt have been a tailor. Or maybe even a plantation since the tools are for ground work, and the blobs could very well be cotton. It would be a nice trade for tailoring. For some reason the crowbar screems at me "wooden crates". *shrug*
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Post by macb on Apr 26, 2011 14:14:17 GMT
Awwwwwww, rats! macb gave it away. Now we can't watch the various speculations. Of course, those blobs and the pot on the right are still unidentified...how about we let 'em speculate on those for while? Nothing said has debunked my guess that it was made for a tailor, or as I put it "has something to do with tailoring". Combined with the current knowledge I dont see how he/she couldnt have been a tailor. Or maybe even a plantation since the tools are for ground work, and the blobs could very well be cotton. It would be a nice trade for tailoring. For some reason the crowbar screems at me "wooden crates". *shrug* This is exactly what I stated , that the owner of the coin used the tools of his trade , eg: a tailor , as his mark . As for the tools , they have nothing to do with a plantation as they are the working tools of a Royal Arch Mason .
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Post by macb on Apr 26, 2011 14:20:26 GMT
Also these "blobs" are not "cotton , what is pictured is nothing more than a pot of incense , the "blobs" is smoke from the burning incense .
But feel free to continue speculating .
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Post by macb on Apr 26, 2011 14:31:35 GMT
Both the working tools (the pick , the spade and the crow(bar) ) and the Pot of Incense have great meaning to a York Rite , Royal Arch Mason .
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Post by billmcelligott on Apr 26, 2011 15:42:07 GMT
Indeed the tools, incense and even the Keystone are connected with Holy Royal Arch.
That would bring the mind back to a York Rite penny would it not ?
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Post by macb on Apr 26, 2011 15:56:00 GMT
Indeed the tools, incense and even the Keystone are connected with Holy Royal Arch. That would bring the mind back to a York Rite penny would it not ? Yes it would .
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Post by billmcelligott on Apr 26, 2011 15:56:33 GMT
Manley P. Hall's "Secret Teachings of All Ages" was written 30 years before Hall became a Mason. www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/index.htmFor once, a book which really lives up to its title. Hall self-published this massive tome in 1928, consisting of about 200 legal-sized pages in 8 point type; it is literally his magnum opus. Each of the nearly 50 chapters is so dense with information that it is the equivalent of an entire short book. If you read this book in its entirety you will be in a good position to dive into subjects such as the Qabbala, Alchemy, Tarot, Ceremonial Magic, Neo-Platonic Philosophy, Mystery Religions, and the theory of Rosicrucianism and Freemasonry. Although there are some questionable and controversial parts of the book, such as the outdated material on Islam, the portion on the Bacon-Shakespeare hypothesis, and Hall's conspiracy theory of history as driven by an elite cabal of roving immortals, they are far out-weighed by the comprehensive information here on other subjects. The Hiram KeyQuatuor Coronati Lodge No 2067 the Premier Lodge of Masonic research under United Grand Lodge of England, has criticized the book as Pseudohistory, and some Masonic libraries categorise the volume as fiction. Grand Lodge of BC and Yukon The Hiram Key is yet another example of "Von Daaniken’s syndrome" where wishful thinking and pre-determined conclusions replace facts in the presentation of opinion masquarading as theory. It is an entertaining read, and certainly presents some interesting ideas. But its presentation of opinion as fact does both Freemasonry and the academic study of masonic history a disservice. Both books are heavy on speculation but short on fact. However a good read, but not to be taken without question as factualy historic.
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Post by sammy on Apr 27, 2011 0:20:56 GMT
Also these "blobs" are not "cotton , what is pictured is nothing more than a pot of incense , the "blobs" is smoke from the burning incense . But feel free to continue speculating . Thank you for the addition, cotton was just my strongest inclination at the time. Incense would make much more sense as cotton isnt usualy seen flying.
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Post by maat on Apr 27, 2011 0:55:49 GMT
Masonic scissors = cut the crap ;D
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Post by billmcelligott on Apr 27, 2011 3:10:46 GMT
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Post by maat on Apr 27, 2011 7:21:24 GMT
Sorry Bill, you obviously were not in the same silly mind as me today Went and had a look at Sterling penny (surprised to discover they have pennies in the USA - so I learned something today). Still can't see any scissors, just the working tools of RA. ??
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