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Post by xiii on Oct 28, 2011 12:50:46 GMT
From www.gnostique.net/initiation/pasqually.htmMartinez de Pasquales' father was born in Alicante Spain, and held a Masonic patent delivered by Charles Stuart, “King of Scotland, Ireland and England, dated 20th May 1738 and granting him as Deputy Grand Master the power to erect temples to the glory of the Grand Architect”. This patent, and the powers it confered, were transmissable at death to his son, “The Powerful Master Joachim Don Martinez Pasqualis, aged 28”. Is this taken as fact in Martinism in general, or is that different from organisation to organisation? I wonder, because in the case of von Hund's Masonic patent, his insistance (or implication, rather) that Stuart was the Unknown Superior granting the charter has very much been used as an argument against the patent's veracity. Is this patent still in existance and has it been verified?
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Post by middlepillar on Oct 28, 2011 14:02:18 GMT
From www.gnostique.net/initiation/pasqually.htmMartinez de Pasquales' father was born in Alicante Spain, and held a Masonic patent delivered by Charles Stuart, “King of Scotland, Ireland and England, dated 20th May 1738 and granting him as Deputy Grand Master the power to erect temples to the glory of the Grand Architect”. This patent, and the powers it confered, were transmissable at death to his son, “The Powerful Master Joachim Don Martinez Pasqualis, aged 28”. Is this taken as fact in Martinism in general, or is that different from organisation to organisation? I wonder, because in the case of von Hund's Masonic patent, his insistance (or implication, rather) that Stuart was the Unknown Superior granting the charter has very much been used as an argument against the patent's veracity. Is this patent still in existance and has it been verified? Hi T I hope you are well? Good to hear from you. In terms of Martinism as practised today (Not Elus Kohen or CBCS) This Charter is not very important, We work to Papus's work which was written 100 or so years after. Pasqualez was a Freemason and did work The EK as a Masonic Rite. I have no idea whether any of Pasqualez's Patents are to be found. If they were anywhere they would be very sought after thats for sure. They could be in the Annals of The OM and if they are I doubt they would ever be released. I do know a group that claim a direct EK line back to Pasqualez also to include all the grades but again I cannot verify that claim at the moment.
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Post by xiii on Oct 28, 2011 15:11:33 GMT
Yes, it's a little tangential. I just wondered -- sometimes a lot of emphasis is placed on lineage.
Thank you.
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Post by mrmason on Oct 28, 2011 19:49:23 GMT
There are certainly those that insist on lineage being important and perhaps with some justification. I think that if this particular patent was to be discovered it could open several doors with regards perhaps understanding some of the unanswered questions appertaining to these type of orders/degrees.
As for the Unknown Superiors, I attended a lecture yesterday on the Swedish Rite of Freemasonry as worked in Germany, and the speaker stated that even today there are those that believe there are Unknown Superiors above the 10th and final degree of the Rite that effectively, "run the show".
I tend to think that Von Hunds "Unknown Superiors", Pasqually's, and others, are one and the same, ie, a metaphor for spiritual teaching.
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Post by xiii on Oct 29, 2011 11:21:47 GMT
As for the Unknown Superiors, I attended a lecture yesterday on the Swedish Rite of Freemasonry as worked in Germany, and the speaker stated that even today there are those that believe there are Unknown Superiors above the 10th and final degree of the Rite that effectively, "run the show". I tend to think that Von Hunds "Unknown Superiors", Pasqually's, and others, are one and the same, ie, a metaphor for spiritual teaching. (As a member of the Swedish Rite) I agree with you.
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parsifal
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Post by parsifal on Dec 4, 2011 16:10:24 GMT
For me personally this is an interesting topic, since both Charters, Pasqually's and von Hund's, seem to have the same lineage or root(s) - someone from the House of Stewart (in exile)!
The second thing that connects the two is that von Hund's Rite of Stirct Observance is later rectified by Pasqually's student and initiate of EC Jean-Baptiste Willermoz to become Rite Écossais Rectifié (Chevaliers Bienfaisant de la Cité Sainte).
Not sure for the Charter of EC or the so called "Unknown Superiors", but von Hund's Charter is preserved in the archives of the Grand Lodge of Denmark, it is written in a coded language which no one never gave the key!
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