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Post by trer on Dec 28, 2011 18:25:33 GMT
Aren't they Sterkin, Oterfout and Avivala?
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Post by trer on Dec 30, 2011 17:08:06 GMT
No one wants to answer?
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Post by irishmason on Dec 30, 2011 18:37:34 GMT
Statler, Waldorf and Kermit ;D
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Post by trer on Dec 30, 2011 18:54:32 GMT
You have been reported for this. Now, can anyone answer me without any irony?
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Post by rembrandt on Dec 30, 2011 20:34:27 GMT
Yakko, Wakko, and Dot
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Post by billmcelligott on Dec 30, 2011 22:07:33 GMT
I am confused, which is not a mystery in itself but a google on Sterkin, Oterfout and Avivala has only one result and that is this thread.
However Yakko, Wakko, and Dot - Statler, Waldorf and Kermit - have many results.
Which proves that are far more popular than all other candidates.
A very old mason after his fourth glass of wine informed me that the names came about during the building of Solomons temple when putting the finishing touches on the roof, the builder dropped his hammer and shouted "look out Jew below". But I have my doubts.
It is reported that it was a clue left at one of the Jack the Ripper Crimes where the word 'Juwes' was found near a murder. Anti Masons often refer to it trying to create a Masonic connection.
Personally my opinion is that the names are too close to not be made up, what are the chances of finding three men in the same place at the same time doing the same thing with almost the same name ?
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Post by trer on Dec 30, 2011 23:17:51 GMT
billmcelligott, are you Scottish Rite or York Rite?
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Post by trer on Dec 30, 2011 23:19:18 GMT
I think that in the 9th degree, Scottish Rite ritual their real names are told.
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Post by trer on Dec 30, 2011 23:38:49 GMT
I finally found it:
Sterkin, Oterfut and Habibullah
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Post by irishmason on Dec 31, 2011 0:32:18 GMT
You have been reported, fine thanks, great. to whom the CIA? I have often been reported by some ... confirms the old prejudice that masons have no humour...
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Post by billmcelligott on Dec 31, 2011 1:34:59 GMT
trer I am UGLE which means we do not follow the Scottish / York Rite as in the US.
We have separated orders which are similar. It covers the same basics just in slightly different way.
irishmason are you saying Masons are without humela, humelo or humelums
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Post by middlepillar on Dec 31, 2011 9:13:14 GMT
Trer
When a member puts a ;D after thier post it generally means they are being funny.
I can see no irony in Irish Masons post just humour. This is a mainly a European based board and most members are not familiar with the Scottish Rite and York Rite systems, they know them but not the system or the degrees worked. In the Scottish Rite, in England we only ever work the 18th Degree, the degrees 4-17 are often exemplified but only 2 degrees a year are ever done.
As I have said this is mainly a European Board with some very distinguished American, Australian and New Zealand Brethren joining us occasionally. Please try to understand our humour will be slightly different from that on an American Forum
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Post by trer on Dec 31, 2011 12:45:24 GMT
I am a Greek of British ancestry. So, I love British humour but I HATE American and Irish humour. Also, here in Greece we have both Scottish Rite and York Rite. I am Scottish Rite.
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Post by offramp on Dec 31, 2011 12:46:23 GMT
You have been reported for this. Now, can anyone answer me without any irony? what irony?
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Post by offramp on Dec 31, 2011 13:10:21 GMT
Kenneth McKenzie thought that the real names were analogues of the names of three of the prime movers in the execution of Charles I.
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Post by irishmason on Dec 31, 2011 17:46:53 GMT
billmcelligottQuote: irishmason are you saying Masons are without humela, humelo or humelums Unquote I think we all should have and have a lot of humera, humero and humorum :-) Happy New Year to you
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Post by rembrandt on Dec 31, 2011 19:03:11 GMT
At least the Irish humor is hated as much as the American humor.
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Post by mrmason on Jan 1, 2012 19:20:15 GMT
Libra, Scorpio and Sagittarius and the yearly reducing of the sun have been linked to the 3 ruffians. The sun declines during each of these periods in a year and is finally "killed" by Sagittarius on the winter solstice.
Apparently in Greek mythology there is the 3 Cabires brothers, Axiokersos, Axieros, and Axioersa. Two of the brothers killed the third and buried him at the foot of Mount Olympus. He was then raised by Hermes and 2 helpers. These 3 brothers were supposed to be of Phoenician origin similar to Hiram.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jan 1, 2012 21:40:58 GMT
Manley Hall may assist in this question ! a section from Secret Teachings, which is not definitive but picks up some points other scholars had made already.
Albert Pike mentions several forms of the name CHiram: Khirm, Khurm, and Khur-Om, the latter ending in the sacred Hindu monosyllable OM, which may also be extracted from the names of the three murderers. Pike further relates the three ruffians to a triad of stars in the constellation of Libra and also calls attention to the fact that the Chaldean god Bal--metamorphosed into a demon by the Jews--appears in the name of each of the murderers, Jubela, Jubelo, and Jubelum. To interpret the Hiramic legend requires familiarity with both the Pythagorean and Qabbalistic systems of numbers and letters, and also the philosophic and astronomic cycles of the Egyptians, Chaldeans, and Brahmins. For example, consider the number 33. The first temple of Solomon stood for thirty-three years in its pristine splendor. At the end of that time it was pillaged by the Egyptian King Shishak, and finally (588 B.C.) it was completely destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar and the people of Jerusalem were led into captivity to Babylon. (See General History of Freemasonry, by Robert Macoy.) Also King David ruled for thirty-three years in Jerusalem; the Masonic Order is divided into thirty-three symbolic degrees; there are thirty-three segments in the human spinal column; and Jesus was crucified in the thirty-third year of His life.
The efforts made to discover the origin of the Hiramic legend show that, while the legend in its present form is comparatively modem, its underlying principles run back to remotest antiquity. It is generally admitted by modem Masonic scholars that the story of the martyred CHiram is based upon the Egyptian rites of Osiris, whose death and resurrection figuratively portrayed the spiritual death of man and his regeneration through initiation into the Mysteries. CHiram is also identified with Hermes through the inscription on the Emerald Table. From these associations it is evident that CHiram is to be considered as a prototype of humanity; in fact he is Plato's Idea (archetype) of man. As Adam after the Fall symbolizes the Idea of human degeneration, so CHiram through his resurrection symbolizes the Idea of human regeneration.
On the 19th day of March, 1314, Jacques de Molay, the last Grand Master of the Knights Templars, was burned on a pyre erected upon that point of the islet of the Seine, at Paris, where afterwards was erected the statue of King Henry IV. (See The Indian Religions, by Hargrave Jennings.) "It is mentioned as a tradition in some of the accounts of the burning," writes Jennings, "that Molay, ere he expired, summoned Clement, the Pope who had pronounced the bull of abolition against the Order and had condemned the Grand Master to the flames, to appear, within forty days, before the Supreme Eternal judge, and Philip [the king] to the same awful tribunal within the space of a year. Both predictions were fulfilled." The close relationship between Freemasonry and the original Knights Templars has caused the story of CHiram to be linked with the martyrdom of Jacques de Molay. According to this interpretation, the three ruffians who cruelly slew their Master at the gates of the temple because he refused to reveal the secrets of his Order represent the Pope, the king, and the executioners. De Molay died maintaining his innocence and refusing to disclose the philosophical and magical arcana of the Templars.
Those who have sought to identify CHiram with the murdered King Charles the First conceive the Hiramic legend to have been invented for that purpose by Elias Ashmole, a mystical philosopher, who was probably a member of the Rosicrucian Fraternity. Charles was dethroned in 1647 and died on the block in 1649, leaving the Royalist party leaderless. An attempt has been made to relate the term "the Sons of the Widow" (an appellation frequently applied to members of the Masonic Order) to this incident in English history, for by the murder of her king England became a Widow and all Englishmen Widow's Sons.
To the mystic Christian Mason, CHiram. represents the Christ who in three days (degrees) raised the temple of His body from its earthly sepulcher. His three murderers were Cæsar's agent (the state), the Sanhedrin (the church), and the incited populace (the mob). Thus considered, CHiram becomes the higher nature of man and the murderers are ignorance, superstition, and fear. The indwelling Christ can give expression to Himself in this world only through man's thoughts, feelings, and actions. Right thinking, right feeling, and right action--these are three gates through which the Christ power passes into the material world, there to labor in the erection of the Temple of Universal Brotherhood. Ignorance, superstition, and fear are three ruffians through whose agencies the Spirit of Good is murdered and a false kingdom, controlled by wrong thinking, wrong feeling, and wrong action, established in its stead. In the material universe evil appears ever victorious.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jan 1, 2012 21:44:44 GMT
This comes from Masonic Trowel site www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/degrees/degree_3rd_files/the_hiramic_legend_by_zeldis.htmTHE HIRAMIC LEGEND by Leon Zeldis HIRAM’S MURDER The hours high-twelve (noon) and midnight figure prominently in the legendary recounting of HA’s murder. Not surprisingly, these are the symbolic hours to start and close the work (the meeting) in the first three or Craft degrees in the AASR. The murderers, or ruffians, are three evil workers driven by ambition, envy and ignorance. Unable to gain the secrets of a Master Mason by diligent work, the attempt to exact them by violent means. The names of the three appear in different versions. These are some of the variations: Jubelas, Jubelos, Jubelum Giblon, Giblas, Giblos Ahiram, Romvel, Gravelot or Hobbden Starke, Sterkin, Austerfuth or Oterfut Phanox, Amru, Methusalem The frequent alliterations should be noted. The same phenomenon can be observed in other, non-masonic legends, as we shall see below.
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