|
Post by middlepillar on Oct 14, 2012 9:37:25 GMT
This is a portion of our ritual (HOM) I offer it for anyone who would like something to reflect on, I would invite others interpretations as well;
"Expect nothing from others, not even in times of extreme need. In other words, learn how to remain yourself, Unknown. You are responsible to your own self for all your actions, and your conscience is the Master from whom you shall always take advice, the severe and inflexible Judge to whom you must account for all your deeds. Know how to remain Unknown to those you have saved from misfortune and from the ignorance that bemires. Know how to sacrifice yourself and your self-esteem, whenever it becomes necessary for the good of the Collectivity."
|
|
|
Post by middlepillar on Oct 14, 2012 9:43:28 GMT
My first observations on this are;
Martinism is very definitely not Freemasonry, learn to separate the difference.
Do not bring into a Martinist discussion Group Masonic based opinions or points of view they are irrelevant, everything a Martinist does should be for the Good and it should be done without hope of reward and as incognito as possible. I am not teaching Martinists these things, I am pointing them out to any one who thinks it may be a path for them, it is only right they are aware of the simple but definite differences.
It is also useful to remind ourselves of these things occasionally
|
|
|
Post by fraariel on Oct 14, 2012 14:01:07 GMT
Middle Pillar,
Thank you for this timely and precise bit of reflection!
|
|
|
Post by ericb on Oct 14, 2012 15:48:06 GMT
Middlepillar
I may be a little niaive, but I thought that in Freemasonry, everything we do should be for the Good and done without hope of reward (though I know some Masons who are always looking out for "honours").
Perhaps I will see the difference.
|
|
|
Post by middlepillar on Oct 14, 2012 15:57:47 GMT
Middlepillar I may be a little niaive, but I thought that in Freemasonry, everything we do should be for the Good and done without hope of reward (though I know some Masons who are always looking out for "honours"). Perhaps I will see the difference. Hi Eric You are of course quite correct, really my emphasis is on the last part which reminds us all that the work of a Martinist should be done incognito, we do it for the love of humanity and should expect nothing back, not even acknowledgement! However taking up your question on a personal note I find that most Freemasons can and do talk the talk, very few walk the walk and live thier life by its guiding principles, it has been my own discovery that I have found most Martinists tend to do this, perhaps it is why I am so pro this path in general?
|
|
commiegirl
Member
From each according to their wants to each according to their needs.
Posts: 110
|
Post by commiegirl on Oct 14, 2012 17:16:57 GMT
Really Middlepillar? There are more than a small minority of Martinists who are also Objectivists. They live by the "I've got mine, I want yours" ethic of life.
How do you feel about Willermoz? Doesn't he figure prominently in historical Martinism? He was a thief.
I'm not a Martinist, but I'm suspicious of it and it's claims of paragonism.
|
|
|
Post by middlepillar on Oct 14, 2012 18:01:35 GMT
Really Middlepillar? There are more than a small minority of Martinists who are also Objectivists. They live by the "I've got mine, I want yours" ethic of life. How do you feel about Willermoz? Doesn't he figure prominently in historical Martinism? He was a thief. I'm not a Martinist, but I'm suspicious of it and it's claims of paragonism. Yes really! I can only speak as I find, I live some distance from you so I would presume we meet very different people, and while I would hope that all Martinists behave to a certain standard I cannot be responsible for them if they dont, there is rot in anything, in my opinion not a lot in Martinism but there will always be some. Willermoz features prominently, your question must be a very leading one, because if you know anything about Martinism (which you do) you know this already, If you wish to ask a question please be honest. I dont think Martinism makes claims of paragonism it is what it is, it is certainly not dogmatic and leaves you to find your own way, it feels to me as though you have had some bad experience and I am sorry for that, if you havent then maybe you are just naturally suspicious?
|
|
commiegirl
Member
From each according to their wants to each according to their needs.
Posts: 110
|
Post by commiegirl on Oct 14, 2012 19:19:48 GMT
Middlepillar, you're right our geographical distance may be a factor.
You may not now that the majority of well know Masons you encounter on the web from America are also passionate Objectivists. You may be totally ignorant as to the selfish and inhuman philosophy of Objectivism.
The ties between Martinism and Objectivism and then those ties with Libertarianism and Tea Party thugs does leave me suspicious.
My experience with Martinism is that it's the club of the so called "elite" that are pushing an extreme Objectivist agenda in American politics. They target minorities, women and homosexuals. They are relentless in their war on civil rights.
So, based on my experience, Martinism is a tool to further human misery .
|
|
|
Post by fraariel on Oct 14, 2012 20:23:31 GMT
commiegirl,
I can assure you that your thoughts are misplaced on this. I know quite a few Gay Martinists, and they're treated with every bit as much respect as anyone else. Yes, there are Martinists whose politics vear to the right, but I also know Liberals in Martinism as well.
Martinism is only "elite" in-so-much as it's a rigorous way of life, that has exacting perameters. Not many can walk the rough road that Martinism provides. It is not for the faint of heart. But as for there being some sort of political nexus that you speak of, I can assure you that this is false.
I would be very interested to learn which Martinists you learned these things from, so I can keep a wide berth!
|
|
|
Post by ericb on Oct 14, 2012 20:37:56 GMT
Objectivism is a flawed concept. There's nothing to say someone's pursuit of their own happiness wouldn't be achieved in making others happy. Indeed their raison d'etre is to make others happy.
|
|
|
Post by ERYTGH on Oct 26, 2012 6:55:50 GMT
Sea como fuere, lo que está claro es que la escuadra rossoneri ha hecho un negocio redondo puesto que firmaráa un portento físico con proyección sin tener que desembolsar ni un solo euro. Andreu Fontàs, cedido al Mallorca El defensa catalán, que no camisetas de real madrid entraba en los planes de Tito Vilanova, se fogueará a las órdenes de Joaquín Caparrós.
|
|