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Post by boreades on Feb 26, 2013 22:07:00 GMT
Folks with an interest in the very oldest origins of masonry might also be very interested in The Megalithic Empire by M J Harper & H L Vered As the authors put it: "British Megaliths are in a bit of a doldrum. Just because Stonehenge is a Universe Heritage Site and Avebury is the most visited village on the planet and Skara Brae features in television documentaries twice a week doesn’t mean that anybody has a clue what any of them were actually used for. Basically, academics have been guessing (though pretending they knew) for centuries right up until the 1960’s and 1970’s when, at long last, some experts from outside the ranks of archaeology and pre-history took an interest and ‘proved’ (yes, the quotes are still just about necessary) that the megalith-builders knew rather more about astronomy, geography, surveying and measuring than archeologists and pre-historians thought was decent, even possible, for people living a good long time before the advent of civilisation." Since then two strands have emerged. The academics have stood quite still from shock and continue to witter on about the sheer purposelessness of the stones, emphasizing their ritual purposes, they were built ‘for the ancestors’, ‘they probably conducted processional marches round and round them for three thousand years’ and that kind of thing. It’s more than their job’s worth to say, “We don’t know.” They have an excellent forum here: www.themegalithicempire.nl/ with many posts that touch on masonic themes, and topics that masons can shed light on. I recommend it to the lodge.
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Post by beejay on Feb 26, 2013 22:37:34 GMT
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 27, 2013 8:50:57 GMT
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 27, 2013 8:59:11 GMT
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 27, 2013 9:12:18 GMT
Folks with an interest in the very oldest origins of masonry might also be very interested in The Megalithic Empire by M J Harper & H L Vered
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Post by boreades on Feb 27, 2013 23:17:12 GMT
I'm sure we're all remember the origins of masonry with Hiram Abif of Tyre. It was from Tyre that King Solomon is said to have got the megalithic engineering skills to build his temple. That was in metal work as well as masonry. What else do we know about Tyre? It was an important Phoenician city, and a hub of their trading empire.
Then there's the Phoenician Temple of Gadir, situated on the Atlantic coast of Spain, just outside the Straits of Gibraltar. From the description of two gigantic pillars inside the temple it sounds very masonic.
But the Phoenicians weren't just people with stone and metal working skills which were the most advanced of their time, they were also sea-going traders that travelled the full length of the Meditteranean. Turkey and Cyprus were the original sources of tin and copper for the Bronze Age. But after those places became depleted of raw materials, the Phoenicians expanded their search for new sources up the Atlantic coast, and found them (directly or indirectly) in Spain, Brittany, Cornwall, Wales and Ireland. Archeologists have found Phoenician trade goods in several UK coastal locations in Cornwall, Devon and Dorset.
So (despite Nathan Carmody's book review) there's plenty of solid evidence that (1) the megalithic trading empire was a fact, and (2) that the skills and knowledge that built King Solomon's temple could have come to Britain in pre-Roman times.
Were Hiram Abif's ancestors working metal and stone in Britain, even before Joseph of Arimathea? Did some masonic ritual come with them as well?
I'd be very interested to read other people's insights into these ancient links.
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Post by beejay on Feb 28, 2013 4:37:16 GMT
Some draw parallels between the British and the Phoenicians - grooved pottery, stone circles and red hair (at least in the Scots).
Were they cousins?
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Post by boreades on Feb 28, 2013 23:20:08 GMT
I'll have to do some digging to find the exact reference, but I recall some genetics experts have found that a distinct group of Scots share a DNA heritage with folks from North Africa. Which might be Phoenicians, or Carthaginians.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 1, 2013 2:47:37 GMT
For the credulous:
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 1, 2013 3:08:04 GMT
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Post by rembrandt on Mar 3, 2013 0:19:55 GMT
Any minute now there will be discussions of unicorns and spaceships.
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Post by boreades on Mar 3, 2013 17:14:47 GMT
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 4, 2013 19:56:37 GMT
Sorry you've lost me, what's credulous about a proven DNA link between two groups, no matter how small the proportion is? The article refers to a "tiny fraction" of the population and specifies just 1% of all Scots sharing the characteristic genome. The point is there are no "pure races." People have always traveled and interbred. The world, including Scotland, is a melting pot. I am surprised the percentage was not higher. By way of comparison, in Australia the DNA of a person commonly perceived to be a white supremacist showed:
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Post by boreades on Apr 17, 2013 21:07:59 GMT
"The point is there are no "pure races." People have always traveled and interbred. The world, including Scotland, is a melting pot. I am surprised the percentage was not higher." - I'm happy to agree with that. Have you seen any of the articles on "Celts" in China. Better known as The Mummies of Xinjiang, of tall fair-haired people dating from about 2000 B.C., who wore plaid woven clothes. e.g. www.alaska.net/~henri/chinacelts.html
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Post by boreades on Apr 17, 2013 22:02:34 GMT
In support of Tamrin's point that people have alway travelled... usually it was peaceful trade and commerce. But that doesn't get much attention from Orthodox Historians, because Death, War and Destruction sells more books and make for better TV series and academic fame. By which means I make no apology for this excellent animation of 3,000 years of middle east history in 90 seconds www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Apr 18, 2013 5:54:26 GMT
Have you seen any of the articles on "Celts" in China. Indeed, there are several such examples. Later there were the Romans in China: Black Horse Odyssey and recently the Aussies in Paraguay. Albeit, these discreet communities are somewhat different from the more-or-less casual travelers who, it seems, moved on leaving only their genes or assimilated with the locals. Other variants are the "wandering" peoples such as the Jews post the diaspora and the Roma (gypsies) from northern India. Pottery, flints, salt, etc. had been traded over vast areas in prehistory (the Silk Road was largely the connecting of partially disjointed trade routes existing since the mind of man ran not to the contrary). We are truly a wonderfully diverse and adaptable species.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Apr 18, 2013 9:12:11 GMT
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Apr 18, 2013 9:17:44 GMT
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