|
Post by anonymous.shyster on Jan 14, 2015 9:01:29 GMT
Hey all,
I was initiated in to Freemasonry and went as far as the third degree before I took a break from it all due to personal circumstances. I do want to become a member again someday, but the thing keeping me from continuing with freemasonry (besides personal circumstances) were that I got in to Gnosticism. There are a lot of rumours going around about Freemasonry, and I doubt I'll ever get to the bottom of it all, unless I become a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason (and then even, I may not).
Of course, saying I'm Gnostic means next to nothing, since there are several dozen Gnostic belief systems around. I suppose I should say that I believe that the creator god, Jehovah is a devil while Lucifer is the liberator of mankind. I understand that saying something like this in an open community will gather some kind of retribution. I don't apologise.
I was rather distraught when the Third Degree of Freemasonry ascribed the secret word with material possessions. I don't want to be stuck in the material, I desire the spiritual especially the spiritual heart. Maybe I should have opted out in that degree?
I just really want to know what Freemasonry ascribes to so that I may continue in my quest for the light. I've been reading about the Illuminati and their quest to kill the demon Jehovah, and although I'm probably not much use, I would consider nothing more noble than being an instrument in bringing down the biggest evil of all - the Demiurge Yaldaboath or Jehovah, as the Christians call it.
So, can anybody tell me whether the God of Freemasonry is the True God or the false god, Jehovah?
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Jan 14, 2015 9:21:00 GMT
I believe it is a mistake to look for Religion in Freemasonry.
In my opinion Freemasonry is a tool that can be used to make yourself more grounded and well rounded as a person, which in turn may well make the search for enlightenment much less complicated.
The wonderful basic element of Freemasonry is it can be used by all, you do not have to fit into one mold.
I think you may be looking to ascribe too much to one word. It is a symbol nothing more. As with 'remove the plank from your own eye' it illustrates. No one expects you to have a plank in your eye.
There is no God of Freemasonry, my challenge over the years has been. Find me one single person who has left his Religion to join Freemasonry. So far in the last 25 years no one has come forward.
|
|
|
Post by anonymous.shyster on Jan 14, 2015 10:53:17 GMT
Interesting...
|
|
|
Post by peter2 on Jan 16, 2015 1:10:24 GMT
>there are several dozen Gnostic belief systems around
Technically gnostics do not believe that life has meaning since they know that it does. Discovering what that meaning might be is a lot harder and there are many beliefs and theories about what that meaning is and how it got that way.
> Jehovah is a devil while Lucifer is the liberator of mankind
The relationship of gods to humans is rather fraught. Some gods were/are jealous and vengeful. And in the native traditions there were plenty of wars in the heavens that may well continue to the present day. Periodically one group of gods would predominate and declare the deposed gods to be demons.
For myself I am quite wary about allegiance to any of the gods.
> the secret word with material possessions
That is a password indicating that the material possessions must by passed by before the brother is worthy to continue. Worldly possessions include psychic powers - being of no use in the temple in the heavens.
There is another meaning also in that the god referenced is reputed to have taught metal-based warfare and the use of makeup by women. Hence the necessity to be deprived of metals before entry.
>whether the God of Freemasonry is the True God or the false god, Jehovah?
You may have noticed that the GAOTU is a functional description not a personal name - being a relationship to this universe and some other universes. About the GAOTU it is true to say: Having pervaded the Universe with a fragment of myself, I remain.
Despite the claims of priests, none of the gods seen on Earth is the GAOTU. The gods of Earth wanted sacrifice (food), armies, land and sometimes vengeance. How could the GAOTU be interested in such things?
Freemasonry is widely held to be the property of Grand Lodges, and this may weaken the connection to the GAOTU for whose service Freemasonry is supposed to prepare us.
The GAOTU has much wider interests than Freemasonry on this planet so that there are many ways for you to proceed. The key is progressively to increase the experience of Light at all levels of Existence. Theological discussion is no substitute for inner progress.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Jan 16, 2015 11:21:09 GMT
The GAOTU
My stndard reply when asked who is this GAOTU is
God, - is he not the architect of the Universe
Allah - is he not the architect of the Universe
Yahweh - is he not the architect of the Universe
Akal Purakh, - is he not the architect of the Universe
Brahman, - is he not the architect of the Universe
|
|
|
Post by peter2 on Jan 16, 2015 20:47:48 GMT
... Yahweh - is he not the architect of the Universe... This view is not entirely supported by the Old Testament. Here is Young's Literal, Deuteronomy 32 8In the Most High causing nations to inherit, In His separating sons of Adam — He setteth up the borders of the peoples By the number of the sons of Israel. 9For Jehovah’s portion [is] His people, Jacob [is] the line of His inheritance. This seems to say that the Most High gave to Jehovah the sons of Jacob but not the other sons of Adam. At very least I must conclude that the Most High is senior to Yahweh. Further, I find it hard to believe that GAOTU would appear locally to allocate such a minor species as humans. Thus the Most High must be junior to GAOTU - even perhaps part of the creation.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Jan 16, 2015 22:22:24 GMT
The term Yahweh went thruogh some tranasformations in literature first mentioned in Egyptian text I believe.
From Wiki With the work of Second Isaiah (the theoretical author of the second part of the Book of Isaiah) towards the end of the Babylonian exile (6th century BC), the very existence of foreign gods was denied, and Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator of the cosmos and the true god of all the world.
|
|
|
Post by peter2 on Jan 17, 2015 1:09:11 GMT
>Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator of the cosmos
I have never quite been able to trust the theological statements of priests. The statements seem to vary according to which god they follow.
And Jehovah was/is a jealous god. Of what could the creator of the cosmos be jealous?
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Jan 17, 2015 11:40:06 GMT
> And Jehovah was/is a jealous god. Of what could the creator of the cosmos be jealous? But still the creator jealous or not.
|
|
|
Post by peter2 on Jan 17, 2015 20:20:51 GMT
Personally I fail to see how a creator could be jealous of his own creation but then I am not a theologist.
Do we then aspire to be jealous (and vengeful) like the alleged creator? Or do we plan to excel our creator in human qualities?
The issue may be resolved by considering that the god EA (not Jah) created (bred) the human race and that race was then allocated amongst the gods with Jah receiving a very small portion - his chosen people, but chosen by TMH.
The followers of Jah overstated his role by claiming that he created the human race, and overstated it again by claiming that Jah was the ruler of the gods, then they overstated it again by claiming Jah had created the universe.
The followers could do this only by ignoring the Kabbalah where we find quite a number of further actors such as the Ancient of Days and the Ancient of Ancients.
|
|
|
Post by seekinglight on Dec 11, 2016 16:12:55 GMT
Old thread, but figured I'd comment. In my own personal view, I stand with you on viewing the God of the Old Testament as a demon, but I certainly would not call Lucifer the liberator of mankind. In left-hand path doctrines, Lucifer is certainly given reverence so that right there is plenty cause for concern. In my view, the God who does things such as prescribe curses, such as mentioned in Deuteronomy 28, is the God of this world, who is Satan. I view Christ as one of the Enlightened Ones (comparable to Buddha), who provided us with a path to liberation to escape Satan, aka the demiurge. The God of the Old Testament is entirely unworthy of any sort of worship. This becomes apparent to anyone who has any familiarity with the Old Testament. But as started in the discussion before, and I'm not entirely sure as I don't speak Hebrew, it seems that the Old Testament bounces between discussion of different types of Gods, so I would also call the Bible polytheistic in a sense.
|
|
|
Post by seekinglight on Dec 11, 2016 16:38:57 GMT
Also to add to that last comment, it seems that there are times in the O.T. where a more benevolent deity is referenced, but I certainly would not give any sort of wrathful deity the honor of being called The Most High.
|
|
|
Post by peter2 on Dec 11, 2016 19:54:03 GMT
> is the God of this world, who is Satan
There are many gods of this world - and the god of the OT accordingly said: you shall have no gods before me.
St Paul refers to lords and gods both in earth and in heaven.
I am cautious about all of them.
|
|
|
Post by seekinglight on Dec 11, 2016 23:16:04 GMT
Maybe I got lost in my interpretation. I thought that the New Testament refers to Satan as being the God of this World, and in the context of the Old Testament that seems to make sense. I've heard Masonry described as the Mysteries so I would guess that you're aware of things that I'm not. I don't know for sure though, so I can't say with certainty. But aside from that, the God of the Old Testament seems (in a sense) to be a righteous God, but definitely not a compassionate one. I really like the courage that Buddhists display in not being enslaved to any of them. It seems many people in the West are outright afraid to criticize the God of the Old Testament, which is really sad to see. I think from a Buddhist point of view, any time a being tries to prevent you from becoming Enlightened, they are viewed as an agent/manifestation of what is basically the Buddhist version of the devil.
|
|
|
Post by peter2 on Dec 12, 2016 0:18:16 GMT
>New Testament refers to Satan as being the God of this World
I see that it does do so. But which god are they calling Satan?
St Paul tells us: "for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth — as there are gods many and lords many "
Notice 4 categories: lords on earth, lords in heaven, gods on earth, gods in heaven.
A god is/was lord over his/her people but was not the lord for peoples belonging to another god.
The Sumerian accounts describe 2 gods left in charge of the planet. They are/were brothers but the oldest did not inherit and battled with his younger brother - using humans where relevant.
>I really like the courage that Buddhists display in not being enslaved to any of them.
It seems to me that all accounts suffer from human editors.
>any time a being tries to prevent you from becoming Enlightened, they are viewed as an agent/manifestation of what is basically the Buddhist version of the devil.
Does not a satan (adversary) have its value in testing the applicant for enlightenment?
Where is the value in learning to control thought unless there is another intelligence determined to manipulate our thoughts?
Yin and yang are both required.
|
|
|
Post by seekinglight on Dec 13, 2016 13:47:52 GMT
I'm not entirely sure which God they're referring to, honestly I think I was just getting mad because I actually read some of what the Old Testament said and I used to just blindly think that the God of the Old Testament was good lol.
But to look at it fairly, from what I know of the Old Testament (not a ton, but a little bit), one of the Gods described in there seems to be just in a sense, but also extraordinarily unforgiving. As I mentioned before, the God that prescribes 'curses for disobedience' in Deuteronomy 28 seems to be somewhat of a demiurge.
Some of the stuff in there makes sense at least when viewed historically, but reading even a little bit of the Old Testament, I very easily see why you're weary about allegiance to any of the Gods.
Maybe Young's Literal Translation would help me see what is actually happening, because some things in the Bible, even the Old Testament, seem to be some of the most profound wisdom, and other parts of it just read like a description of a being that somehow ascended to/was born with god-like power and uses it to lord over sentient beings, which in my eyes is evil.
|
|
|
Post by peter2 on Dec 13, 2016 21:53:28 GMT
> uses it to lord over sentient beings, which in my eyes is evil.
Some of the actions required by Jehovah would these days see you in an international court for crimes against humanity.
|
|
|
Post by boreades on Dec 19, 2016 22:06:06 GMT
The GAOTU My stndard reply when asked who is this GAOTU is God, - is he not the architect of the Universe Allah - is he not the architect of the Universe Yahweh - is he not the architect of the Universe Akal Purakh, - is he not the architect of the Universe Brahman, - is he not the architect of the Universe 100% agreed, except that ... [nitpicking mode] God represents the undivided complete unity. Therefore cannot be gender-specific, which is partial and incomplete. Therefore God cannot be a "he". But possibly could be a "she" capable of asexual reproduction. [/nitpicking mode]
|
|
|
Post by boreades on Dec 19, 2016 22:09:52 GMT
> uses it to lord over sentient beings, which in my eyes is evil. Some of the actions required by Jehovah would these days see you in an international court for crimes against humanity. Like all that smiting of the enemies?
|
|
|
Post by peter2 on Dec 19, 2016 22:45:02 GMT
>Therefore God cannot be a "he".
From my limited observation of the GAOTU, there are two aspects. The male aspect interpenetrates this set of universes and the female aspect interpenetrates another set of universes.
On occasion an intelligence from one set appears in the other set. In our culture such an intelligence is often seen as an avatar.
If my perception is correct then the GAOTU is part of an even greater intelligence that I have not seen.
"Having pervaded this whole universe with a fragment of myself, I remain"
|
|