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Post by transcendental on Dec 1, 2006 21:59:30 GMT
Can anyone help me to understand why these two are mutually exclusive? It's my understanding that a MM pursues one or the other, but never both. If that is the case, why is it so? I understand the York Rite is heavily associated with Christian themes. So if one is not a Christian I can see why one would take up the degrees of the Scottish Rite. But why wouldn't a Christian want to pursue both?
Furthermore, after reading through the first few chapters of The Hiram Key my understanding of Christianity has been radically altered. Are most of the brothers in the York Rite the traditional Christian variety, or are Gnostic Christians also strongly represented?
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read and reply.
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Post by kizzy on Dec 1, 2006 22:15:57 GMT
They are not mutually exclusive, at least not in England. I am in Orders in both of these. 18th degree in A&ASR or Rose Croix, but also in Mark, Royal Arch, KTs, ROS and R&SM and various others.
As far as Religion is concerned, personally I am a High Anglican but with somewhat Gnostic Leanings. I can't speak for others but do know of Brethren in these various Orders and Degrees who are Methodist, Low Church, Church of Scotland and even some Roman Catholics, and non affiliated Christians too. In the non-Christian Degrees I know of Jews, Islamics, Sikhs and a couple of Mormons and well as Christians of various denominations.
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Post by hollandr on Dec 1, 2006 22:23:54 GMT
The separation has various reasons.
The most obvious is that in recent centuries the group of lodges that first formed/claimed a Grand Lodge did not recognise a range of other degrees/lodges/chapters.
The second reason is that some of the other degrees/lodges/chapters have a different origin or line of descent than craft Masonry
The third reason is that some of the other degrees/lodges/chapters have a different connection into the Temples in the Heavens (note the plural) and thereby may carry a different aspect of the Divine Plan
But generally Co-Masonry manages to combine York and Scottish Masonry quite successfully
Cheers
Russell
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Dec 1, 2006 22:24:01 GMT
This seems to me to be a USA-based question, rather than Freemasonry universal, where constitutions also seem to favour or the other of the two, rather than include the variety. What is called 'York' freemasonry basically includes what in many other places are viewed as 'appendent' bodies (such as Red Cross of Constantine). In most other places, many Freemasons are (and certainly can if they do not already) take part in both Ancient & Accepted (or 'Scottish') Freemasonry, and the various knightly and other orders, without there being an equivalence between these accepted or suggested. Scandinavia has an interesting structure that also recognises the equivalence of each, though works its own integrated structure. For the pleasure of those who have not seen it, here is an earlier American suggested equivalence between the 'York' and the AA Scottish structural plan:
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Post by transcendental on Dec 1, 2006 23:30:29 GMT
Thanks for the very prompt and informative replies.
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Post by Bettendorf on Dec 2, 2006 1:36:31 GMT
In my Jurisdiction, one must profess the Christian faith to become a Scottish Rite Mason.
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sarge
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Post by sarge on Dec 2, 2006 2:03:45 GMT
in Australia a belief in the holy trinity is a prerequisite for being accepted into A&ASR
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Post by kizzy on Dec 2, 2006 8:23:59 GMT
Same here. In A&ASR (Rose Croix) one has to make a Declaration that one is a Trinitarian Christian. There is no need however to attend Church nor even to be a member of one.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Dec 2, 2006 9:54:18 GMT
I wonder what is declared by AASR Brn in Israel
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Post by vadro on Dec 2, 2006 12:25:41 GMT
I wonder what is declared by AASR Brn in Israel And in Muslims countries.
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Post by windtimber on Dec 2, 2006 14:24:38 GMT
The two are not mutually exclusive, at least in my part of the USA. I belong to both AASR, Southern Jurisdiction, and the York Rite, having in the past served in the line of our state's Grand York Rite bodies. Our York Rite work does not require Christian obligations until the final portions of the Order of the Temple. We understand that brethren of other faiths will not, at that point, find continuing on acceptable. That is not a problem. Our AASR work includes philosophical lessons from many faiths. I know that some of my Scottish Rite brethren are Jewish, some Christian, some are Deists, and I have no idea what faith most practice. We are bound by ties of fraternal brotherhood and a belief in a supreme being. Beyond that, there is little if any inquiry - that being a matter of individual faith, spirtuality, and understanding.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Dec 2, 2006 21:28:17 GMT
IMO each Rite owns its peculiarities, so man cannot be member of any and all Rites. He ought to choose one and this would be quite enough.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Dec 3, 2006 15:16:19 GMT
In my Jurisdiction, one must profess the Christian faith to become a Scottish Rite Mason. Hmmmm. This would be news to me. I live in Oregon and I have friends in Malecraft lodges in this state. They've mentioned to me the requirement of belief in a supreme being but not specifically Christian. In fact, I know of a lodge that had a Jewish candidate not too very long ago. Do you have a link for this requirement. I realize your jurisdiction isn't mine but I do live here and I've referred men to your GL. If this is a requirement, then I'd like to know this for certain so I'll not send any nonChristians that way.
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phil
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Post by phil on Dec 3, 2006 20:43:57 GMT
I have been in the AASR for many years here in Holland and have reached the 32nd degree. At no time have I been asked to declare a belief in the holy trinity. As I am Jewish, I could not oblige. The most Christian degree that I have taken is the 18th degree which, I am told, does require the belief in the holy trinity in England but, in Holland, it is rather "watered down" so that I was able to take that degree without compromising my beliefs.
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Post by maat on Dec 3, 2006 23:42:59 GMT
IMO each Rite owns its peculiarities, so man cannot be member of any and all Rites. He ought to choose one and this would be quite enough. ;D How do you know? Maat
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Post by hollandr on Dec 4, 2006 2:55:10 GMT
>How do you know?
Maat
If we knew things then Masonry would be a science - from Latin "scio" "I know"
Then we would have to rewrite most of our charges to reflect knowledge rather than speculation.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by maat on Dec 4, 2006 6:17:21 GMT
It alright Russell - I was just being cheeky with me mate Gio.
How does he know what he says is true if he has only stayed with one rite?
It is suggested by those much more illustrious than we, that what Gio says has some truth to it. Better to practice what you know than to ever be on the hunt for something better maybe. But sometimes it does need a little exploration to find just where you fit in most comfortably....
Maat
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Post by Bettendorf on Dec 4, 2006 15:37:07 GMT
In my Jurisdiction, one must profess the Christian faith to become a Scottish Rite Mason. Hmmmm. This would be news to me. I live in Oregon and I have friends in Malecraft lodges in this state. They've mentioned to me the requirement of belief in a supreme being but not specifically Christian. In fact, I know of a lodge that had a Jewish candidate not too very long ago. Do you have a link for this requirement. I realize your jurisdiction isn't mine but I do live here and I've referred men to your GL. If this is a requirement, then I'd like to know this for certain so I'll not send any nonChristians that way. Hey there Karen, Hopefully I havnt passed on false-information, but my coach(who is a SR Mason) that took me through my Craft degrees mentioned that the Scottish Rite has a Christian prerequisite here, when the topic came up. Only second hand info on my part, you are probably right and he wrong.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Dec 5, 2006 2:36:09 GMT
Hmmmmm, I'm Co-Mason. And an EA. What would I know ;D
I've heard one has to be a Christian to be an Oregon Knight, which I *think* is York Rite.
Well, next time I'm with one of my Oregon GL FM buds, I'll ask.
Thanks!!
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Post by mrmason on Dec 5, 2006 8:28:46 GMT
I heard that one of the Scottish Rite Jurisdictions in the USA was completely Christian and the other only had to maintain a percentage of Christians in their membership.
But then again we all know about chinese whispers!
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