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Post by Blackadder on Jan 10, 2007 3:05:00 GMT
I was Raised last November and was installed as Jr. Steward last week. I have attended a 4 stated meetings.I don't know if this is the norm but to date all I have heard in these meeting is Brothers complaining about the womens toilet not working,and we spent about twenty mins talking about the best way to pay the bills.All the Past Masters are introduced every meeting,and thats about it,There is nothing about Masonic education at all. I have been attending my lodge for close to one year and I have yet to hear any of the older Brothers discuss or even mention the meaning of anything involved in the three degrees. I have yet to return my proficiency in my Master Mason degree,the Brothers who are "teaching ",have little or no understanding of what they are teaching me.It all seems to be about repeating the examination and nothing else,understanding it doesn't even come into play.I was told you can get a silver card if you know all the examinations,question and answers for three degrees,whats the point if you don't know what you are talking about? I will give you an example.In the MM degree I was told twain meant twine as in a rope!!!! and its not tenets its tendons!!!! and the working tool of a MM is a trawl,and I have no idea what that is.There are a few other things that slip my mind. I'm very interested in hearing other Brothers thought on the subject of Masonic education and what does on at regular stated meetings.
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Post by wayseer on Jan 10, 2007 3:19:44 GMT
Too true, too true. You might search this forum and you find some rather lengthy discussions on the matter of Masonic Education - an oxymoran I suspect.
Alternatively, you might instigate your own education program.
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Jan 10, 2007 4:08:47 GMT
Lord BlackadderThe situation you described is, in my experience, all too common. For instance, during a term as WM, I prepared a talk about Pythagoras and gave each officer a portion to read. At our first practice I was astonished to find several Brethren could not frame to pronounce many fairly basic words. I then provided phonetic approximations of them. In all seriousness, they included: Miss Tickle (mystical); Mr. Ease (mysteries); Play-toe (Plato); Pie-thag-or-ass (Pythagoras); Crow-tone-are (Crotona) and many others. These Brethren were good ritualists (although their emphasis was sometimes peculiar) and I was left with feelings of admiration and wonder. Admiration at the effort they must put into their rituals, so as to deliver them word perfect, and wonder (doubt) at their level of understanding of those rituals. My 'cunning plan' worked and the talk was well received. Your long suffering servant, Baldrick (a.k.a. Tamrin)
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 10, 2007 7:14:14 GMT
I was Raised last November and was installed as Jr. Steward last week. I have attended a 4 stated meetings.I don't know if this is the norm but to date all I have heard in these meeting is Brothers complaining about the womens toilet not working,and we spent about twenty mins talking about the best way to pay the bills.All the Past Masters are introduced every meeting,and thats about it,There is nothing about Masonic education at all. I have been attending my lodge for close to one year and I have yet to hear any of the older Brothers discuss or even mention the meaning of anything involved in the three degrees. I have yet to return my proficiency in my Master Mason degree,the Brothers who are "teaching ",have little or no understanding of what they are teaching me.It all seems to be about repeating the examination and nothing else,understanding it doesn't even come into play.I was told you can get a silver card if you know all the examinations,question and answers for three degrees,whats the point if you don't know what you are talking about? I will give you an example.In the MM degree I was told twain meant twine as in a rope!!!! and its not tenets its tendons!!!! and the working tool of a MM is a trawl,and I have no idea what that is.There are a few other things that slip my mind. I'm very interested in hearing other Brothers thought on the subject of Masonic education and what does on at regular stated meetings. Find another lodge then that is able to satisfy your hunger although this is quite often a hard task. Many forget that a lodge is in some way like running a business in that if you do not progress you will stand still , be overtaken by the others and eventyally become stale and fade away.
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Post by matt on Jan 10, 2007 8:05:48 GMT
Bro. Blackadder,
It could be that you were placed in that lodge to bring it to Light. It's not always about having the right answers. It is more about having the right questions.
There are many well-informed brethren here as well as other places about the internet. Are there any specific questions that you have or something in particular that you would like to explore?
Seek and ye shall find.
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 10, 2007 9:45:47 GMT
Bro "Blackadder" I am inclined to agree with Staffs on this, find another Lodge more attuned to your needs and to Masonic Education.
I am not an expert on the USA's version of Malecraft Freemasonry and only know what I have read on this Forum and others about The Craft in America, but I understand that there are two types of Meeting there, one to work the Rituals and confer the Degrees and the others are Business Meetings at which the mundane but necessary matters such as paying the rent on the Temple, repairs- such as the blocked Ladies Toilet, purchasing Lodge Furnishings etc, etc, etc are discussed. Over here in England that type of matter is dealt with by the Lodge Committee and refered to the full Membership only for ratification or if some really important matter such as a rise in Subs is to be proposed then for their approval by vote. Ironically some Brethren here would prefer the US system and resent such matters being in the hands of a little clique of PMs and the Secretary and Treasurer with a couple of token Junior Brethren appointed each year for one year to that all powerful Committee
Turning now to the matter of Masonic Education, there are exceptions but in my 18 years as a Malecraft Mason under UGLE I found that Masonic Education and discussion of what the Rituals actually mean and the significance of the Symbols, Words, Signs and Gestures etc is not dealt with in most UGLE Craft Lodges and it would appear this is the case in some in the USA as well. In the Lodges of Instruction, a very poor name in my opinion, almost all of the time is taken up in learning the words and floorwork as perfectly as possible for the next Ceremony to be performed, a laudable action in itself but if not coupled to UNDERSTANDING of what is being done and why, it is but an empty gesture, rather like children learning to sing "Frere Jacques" in French but having no understand of what the words mean nor being taught this important aspect. Certainly in most of the Craft Lodges I visited in those 18 years, with a couple of notable exceptions, the Speculative aspects, that is discussion and understanding of what was being said and done was totally absent and no process existed to bring it into being if a Lodge did not do so. Occasionally if there was no Candidate a paper or lecture might be given by a Brother but that was an exception and such meetings were often poorly attended by those Brethren who considered themselves short changed if no Ceremony was worked, and Lodges would usualy give a Demonstration of one of the Three Degrees with a Visitor acting as Candidate rather than have a discussion on Masonic Rituals, Symbols etc or would simply Open the Lodge, read and vote on the Minutes, have the Risings, then Close the Lodge and retire to the bar then to the Festive Board.
I am now in a Co- Masonic Body, Le Driot Humain , where the Speculative aspect is of great importance indeed and where both Candidates and experienced Brethren alike will present what we call "A Piece of Architecture" which is a Discussion paper prepared by them on some Masonic Theme. I know of a couple of UGLE Lodges which have adopted this idea and do so very well but they are still the exception I am sorry to say.
Bro Blackadder, don't despair! If needs be join another Lodge which is more into Masonic Education or you could join Lodge of Research , or subscribe to one of the Correspondence Circles such as QCCC, The Cornerstone Society, Canonbury, and I believe there is the Phillathiles Society (check the spelling) in the USA. I also have to say that you can increase your Masonic Knowledge from this Forum and others , I have certainly done so over the years, as we have Brethren of many Grand Lodges, Grand Orients and Obediences ranging under our Banner.
Good luck to you in your Quest , Blackadder you have the Light, nurture it and when it grows let the Light Shine upon others
R:.W:. Bro Stephen J Foley 18˚ Lodge Light of Amen Ra No 717 Orient of Surbiton British Federation International Co-Freemasonry "Le Droit Humain"
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Post by billmcelligott on Jan 10, 2007 10:38:35 GMT
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Jan 10, 2007 11:01:56 GMT
Our Lodge of Research also runs a correspondence course - but be prepared to have to put in some work. For some details, see www.lodgeofresearch.com/diploma.htmlEach brother brings their peculiar strength to a Lodge - but it does feel rather lame when there is an imbalance with few of no members interested in the Miss Terries ( ) of the craft.
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Post by waynecowley on Jan 10, 2007 12:28:42 GMT
Regrettably much of what has been said here about the lack of masonic education in lodges is all too common.
I approached one of our local GL officers at the end of last year to explore the possibility of establishing some form of study group in our Temple (drawing from all the local lodges – and further afield if anyone was interested) to try to address this need.
We’ve had a couple of subsequent discussions – the latest being last night when I bumped into him in a neighbouring Temple.
Looks like we are going to give it a whirl!
The cost? I set it up and take over as the Temple librarian – for a wonderful little treasure chest of books that, so far as anyone can recall, have not been opened for some considerable time
Wish us luck!
Wayne
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Post by kizzy on Jan 10, 2007 13:16:07 GMT
Great News Bro Wayne! May Heaven aid your united endeavours!
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wolfy
Member
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Post by wolfy on Jan 10, 2007 13:47:16 GMT
Bro. Wayne.
It is fantastic to hear people starting up the likes of this! If only I were closer to you I would jump at the chance of joining your "study group"!
Alas distance is a harsh mistriss!
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Post by waynecowley on Jan 10, 2007 13:49:23 GMT
Ask around Bro James - there may well be something going on near you
Wayne
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Post by 2 BOWL CAIN on Jan 10, 2007 13:56:21 GMT
Greetings brother.... I myself ran into lack of education in lodge at first. I became master and tried to add education and was approahed by a PM who stated, keep it to 5 minutes, we tune out after that. I am now in another Lodge where I am one of the oldest at 40 and a mason at 6years, and we have no elders to stop us from doing what we want with lodge meetings. It is fun to have a blank tracing board to work with. Stay on the forums, study as much as you can and travel around your district and look for peers. good luck brother I was Raised last November and was installed as Jr. Steward last week. I have attended a 4 stated meetings.I don't know if this is the norm but to date all I have heard in these meeting is Brothers complaining about the womens toilet not working,and we spent about twenty mins talking about the best way to pay the bills.All the Past Masters are introduced every meeting,and thats about it,There is nothing about Masonic education at all. I have been attending my lodge for close to one year and I have yet to hear any of the older Brothers discuss or even mention the meaning of anything involved in the three degrees. I have yet to return my proficiency in my Master Mason degree,the Brothers who are "teaching ",have little or no understanding of what they are teaching me.It all seems to be about repeating the examination and nothing else,understanding it doesn't even come into play.I was told you can get a silver card if you know all the examinations,question and answers for three degrees,whats the point if you don't know what you are talking about? I will give you an example.In the MM degree I was told twain meant twine as in a rope!!!! and its not tenets its tendons!!!! and the working tool of a MM is a trawl,and I have no idea what that is.There are a few other things that slip my mind. I'm very interested in hearing other Brothers thought on the subject of Masonic education and what does on at regular stated meetings.
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Post by matt on Jan 10, 2007 21:03:37 GMT
Bro. Blackadder,
I would reccomend sticking it out and trying to cause some change in your lodge, seeing that you are in line to be Master in a few years. This is an opportunity for you to influence those around you. Just remember that noone has all the answers. The best we can do is offer our services and live according to the lessons learned in lodge. If we are living in the Light our environment can not help but be illuminated. No amount of darkness can extinguish the smallest flame.
As far as education goes, masonry is an inner journey. I agree that it helps to have like-minded brethren to bounce ideas off of, but noone can teach you what the symbolism means. Ultimately masonry is about the work you do for yourself. Dont base your masonic experience off what other brethren tell (or dont tell) you about the craft. This was a mistake I made in the beginning. Dont fall into the same trap. Feel free to PM me if you would like to hear the boring details of my initial resentment of masonry.
Pax et LVX, Matt
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Post by penfold on Jan 10, 2007 21:27:23 GMT
Wayne, excellent initiative, I hope it is well supported and you all gain much from it.
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Post by Blackadder on Jan 10, 2007 21:49:25 GMT
Thank you all very much for your thoughts on the matter.My lodge is very well thought of in Orlando.We have had Brothers visit from Scotland,South Africa and other US States,and the same Brothers come back and visit every year ,so someone must be doing something right. I was informed that my Lodge is one the very few that can hold degrees, and all the personnel are from my lodge. I was told by a visitor last week that our floor work is very good and everyone knew there parts. We have a few older Brothers who know every word in the Florida Code Book and the Masonic Monitor. I asked our new WM after the installation last Saturday about Masonic Education,he thought that was a good point and that I should have a word with the Senior Warden as he is in charge of Masonic Education,but to be honest I don't think he will be interested,but I will give it my best shot. A PM from New Jersey who is my neighbor and attends the Lodge with me,keeps asking the PM,s,what are we doing to get new "white apron" brothers,they just look at him if he is stupid. I think we get 4 or 5 new MM every year,I think most leave after they become a MM,I asked about this and all I get is blank looks. I don't have any plans to look for another Lodge at this moment in time but I will be traveling and visiting other lodges in Orlando. Thanks for the links,I had a look this morning but I will have a real good look at the weekend. Once again thank you all for you input.
"I think I have a cunning plan!!!......Where is Baldrick when you need him?"
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jan 10, 2007 22:22:25 GMT
(puzzlement)
K, I'm new. And maybe this isn't a universal thing. However, in my lodge, if my RWM tells me to go have a talk with our WSW about *anything*, our WSW is going to be interested. So, yeah buddy, I'd say go talk to the dude.
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Jan 10, 2007 23:29:53 GMT
"I think I have a cunning plan!!!......Where is Baldrick when you need him?" I’m yours for a turnip, M’lord Your long suffering servant, Baldrick (a.k.a. Tamrin)
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
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Post by giovanni on Jan 11, 2007 7:25:45 GMT
Our Lodge of Research also runs a correspondence course - but be prepared to have to put in some work. For some details, see www.lodgeofresearch.com/diploma.htmlEach brother brings their peculiar strength to a Lodge - but it does feel rather lame when there is an imbalance with few of no members interested in the Miss Terries ( ) of the craft. how much are you going to pay the teachers? I could spread off my light...
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Jan 12, 2007 8:42:11 GMT
The reward in being involved is far higher than may reasonably be expected... and has been for the years the course has been running.
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