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Post by sid on Aug 16, 2007 23:31:24 GMT
... Jesus is thought to be a Capricorn ... Could have been someone mischievously stirring the 'religious' pot ... ?? www.thezodiac.com/weird/jesuscapricorn.htm...And the precessional phenomenon of the Platonic "Great Year" which occurs only once every approximately 26,000 years, and signifies the beginning of a new 26,000 year cycle for humankind is thought be some astrologers to start in Cancer and conclude in Capricorn. Interestingly enough Cancer is all about mothering and nurturing. And Capricorn makes interesting reading as well. Among other things they make good leaders and builders. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capricorn_%28astrology%29Maat Astronomical recearch from Germany have found that the time of the birth of Christ was on the 7th of March and 7 years 'before' the present year '0' i.e., real time 7 BC
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 16, 2007 23:31:34 GMT
I think it is very doubtful that Jesus was a Capricorn...
The Catholic Church made Dec.25th his birthday because it coincided with a major Pagan holiday...
If he was truly a descendant of David, and Mary and Joseph followed the customs, he would have been born in September (Virgo) so as to be born during the month of Atonement....
It is said by some that Mary was pregnant before the "proper" time, and that Jesus was born in March (Pisces)....
Not really sure, but IMO, it is extremely unlikely that Jesus was born Dec. 25.
One thing that did occur on Dec. 25, 168 BC was Antiochus Epiphanes defiled the Temple by burning a pig on the altar...
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jmd
Member
fourhares.com
Posts: 1,081
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Post by jmd on Aug 17, 2007 0:37:18 GMT
Christianity as we know it is a combination of Paulianity with a strong influx of Mithraism when Constantine made it the state religion... and the 25th December was very likely selected due to it being the date of the birth of Mithras - the birth of the Solis Invicti.
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 17, 2007 3:17:57 GMT
I can't help but to think that the "goat" is the same as the "scapegoat" that knew the sins of the people, but was redeemed by the sacrifice of the innocent one.
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Post by maat on Aug 20, 2007 0:25:14 GMT
In her book Jesus the Man, Barbara Thiering, says that if Jesus was an Essene, the rules of perpetuating for the priesthood would place his birth in September... apparently an auspicious time to be born.
I had an interesting read of the link I posted previously re Baphomet.
How about this:
Alleged name of the idol which the Templars were accused of worshipping. According to l'Abbé Constant, quoted by Littré,1 this word was cabalistically formed by writing backward tem. o. h. p. ab., abbreviation of templi omnium hominum pacis abbas, 'abbot' or 'father of the temple of peace of all men.') Hence Baphomet•ic a.
1861 - Éliphas Lévi took it upon himself to determine the value of the pentagram and equate it with the Baphomet. No known graphical illustration associating the pentagram with evil appears before this.
1894 - when self-confessed fraud Leo Taxil incorporated a similar figure into his attacks on Freemasonry.
Placing the image of a goat face inside a five-pointed star appears to be the inspiration of Paul Jagot, in his Science Occulte et Magie Pratique (Paris : Editions Drouin, 1924, p. 172). It incorporated an open star, not a pentagram, and Jagot provided no citation.
"I didn't know that" - Maat
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Post by zambuk on Sept 8, 2007 5:21:26 GMT
The only use that I can see for a goat (masonically speaking) would be one that was roasted with veges for supper in the South!
cheers
zambuk
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Post by keith on Sept 9, 2007 1:19:16 GMT
A goat is also a mechanical means used to move a load sideways after it has been lifted by a lewis.
Really, I can't understand everyone's fixation on this. There are much more sensible things to discuss
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Post by lauderdale on Sept 9, 2007 9:27:21 GMT
Again I have to agree with my old "Sparring Partner" Bro Keith Walker. His explanation of the "Goat " is as sensible to me as the one I alluded to as a description of part of the rather robust Scots working of the Third Degree. In neither instance does a Caprine Quadruped take part.
My censure is for those Brethren who should know better and who persist in telling silly, schoolboy playground jokes both to Initiates and others about "The Goat" . It does The Craft no favours, chaps!
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Post by maat on Sept 9, 2007 23:43:02 GMT
My censure is for those Brethren who should know better and who persist in telling silly, schoolboy playground jokes both to Initiates and others about "The Goat" . It does The Craft no favours, chaps! Have you considered the value this sort of comic myth might have in introducing the deeper significance of masonry to a new chum at the pub, or where ever... "Hey mate, hear you ride goats in your spare time... " Big hearty laugh and "Sure do!" "Yeah? .. well what do you do, I mean..." Now I am not a salesman but I could see this conversation taking a very positive turn, especially if you buy the fellow a drink, because it might be a tad longer answer than he anticipated ;D Maat
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Post by keith on Sept 10, 2007 1:23:24 GMT
Maat, I think you are away with the fairies with that idea. I can't see the subject rising above the risible in any sort of pub or bar.
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Post by maat on Sept 10, 2007 2:51:20 GMT
Maat, I think you are away with the fairies with that idea. I can't see the subject rising above the risible in any sort of pub or bar. Hi Keithy You would be surprised at how many really curious people there are out there... if you were really smart, you could get them to buy you a drink, just so you would sit still long enough for them to quizz you... Betcha you could do it, even tho you're a kiwi Maat
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Post by lauderdale on Sept 10, 2007 10:50:16 GMT
Sorry Bro Maat. Not my approach. My Sense of Humour is chained in its cage and I kick it round the room when I am in a bad mood!
I feel that all this Goat rubbish, (aside from the two factual allusions quoted), has done great damage to The Craft and I want no part of it. Someone asks me about Freemasonry and they get a serious answer.
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Post by QUEST on Oct 4, 2008 4:43:21 GMT
I read somewhere, that anti-masons said that we rasie the devil in our meetings. And they(anti-masons) believed that the devil looked like the greek figure Pan. So, I guess someone coined the phrase that we rode the goat(rasied the devil), in our lodge meetings. Crazy, huh?
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Post by Lux Aeterna on Aug 12, 2017 16:09:21 GMT
Russell, No... I don't think so. I don't think one can show his ignorance until at least after he has been released from his cables tow... Before then, they must be ignorant, right? The High Priest took two goats for a sin offering. One as a sacrifice, and one to be set free... The one who was set free was the "scapegoat" and became the "horned God of the forests." Pan, Baccus, whoever... He was the one who knew the sins. Yet he was the one who lived... The "innocent" one died. Well, well, well! Would you believe it? This very post has been reproduced in the video Mystery of the Widow's Son at 46:54. For some interesting theories on the goat, start watching at 38 minutes. But actually it's a very interesting video overall. A touch anti perhaps, but intelligently done and well researched, so you may want to watch it all - it's just under an hour long. Re. the two goats, sadly they both died. One was sacrificed in the temple, the other was thrown off the edge of a cliff, as it was believed to carry with it all the sins of the community. I think that's where the term 'scapegoat' really came from. If anybody watches the video I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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Post by peter2 on Aug 12, 2017 21:03:50 GMT
In my view the goat relates to Tubal Cain - the goat-footed god of the Kenites (Cainites). He taught the use of metal weapons of war and the use of makeup by women. He was keen on the worldly possessions that need to be passed by before entry into the heavenly temple.
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Post by Lux Aeterna on Aug 12, 2017 21:35:00 GMT
Hmm, I didn't know Tubal Cain was goat-footed, but it makes sense, because in the video there is a drawing of Hiram Abiff and the foot that's visible looks cleft, albeit in what looks like a special type of footwear.
The story related in the video is that Cain was born of Eve and an Elohim before she met Adam (so no, she wasn't made out of one of Adam's ribs).
Lameck actually descended from Cain, which is why he called his own son Tubal Cain (which means descended from Cain) and of course the widow's son, Hiram Abiff was in turn Tubal Cain's son, which explains why he is depicted with a cleft foot.
The cleft foot comes from the Elohim who met Eve, as he was not from Adonai's camp but from Lucifer's.
So that's the lineage.
There's also a good explanation of lambs and goats, with the goats representing the industrious Cainites.
It's a very good video (for YT) citing plenty of Masonic sources, which are all listed on the page.
Whoever made that video knows a lot.
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Post by peter2 on Aug 12, 2017 23:07:33 GMT
> Hiram Abiff was in turn Tubal Cain's son The name Hiram Abiff is rather odd. Abba is father and the HR root means high born - thus Hiram Abiff may be translated as "high born is his father" - pretty odd for the son of "a" widow. "While Hiram was floating on high the prophet Ezekiel was brought to him through the air, to reprove him for his arrogance. But the Prince of Tyre replied haughtily that he, like God, was sitting on the sea and in seven heavens, and had already survived David, Solomon, twenty-one kings of Israel, twenty kings of Judah, ten prophets, and ten high priests. Thereupon God said: "What! a mortal dares to deem himself a god because he has furnished cedars for the building of My Temple? Well, then, I will destroy My house in order that meet punishment may come upon him." www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7720-hiram-huramThus it becomes clear that Hiram sits in the 7 heavens and has outlived 21 kings - perhaps as much as 300 years. So who or what is Hiram? Why are we not allowed to know who is his father? And it turns out that God did not really need a house after all.
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Post by seekinglight on Aug 13, 2017 2:06:06 GMT
I am riding the goat once again in quitting smoking. I am limiting myself in my use of tobacco and forcing myself to wait a certain period of time before I light a cigarette. Riding the goat can come of great value for even the simplest actions.
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Post by peter2 on Aug 13, 2017 4:02:40 GMT
Quitting smoking is harder than getting off heroin. Quitting may be as much a spiritual as a physical process.
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Post by Lux Aeterna on Aug 13, 2017 11:08:28 GMT
> Hiram Abiff was in turn Tubal Cain's son The name Hiram Abiff is rather odd. Abba is father and the HR root means high born - thus Hiram Abiff may be translated as "high born is his father" - pretty odd for the son of "a" widow. "While Hiram was floating on high the prophet Ezekiel was brought to him through the air, to reprove him for his arrogance. But the Prince of Tyre replied haughtily that he, like God, was sitting on the sea and in seven heavens, and had already survived David, Solomon, twenty-one kings of Israel, twenty kings of Judah, ten prophets, and ten high priests. Thereupon God said: "What! a mortal dares to deem himself a god because he has furnished cedars for the building of My Temple? Well, then, I will destroy My house in order that meet punishment may come upon him." www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7720-hiram-huramThus it becomes clear that Hiram sits in the 7 heavens and has outlived 21 kings - perhaps as much as 300 years. So who or what is Hiram? Why are we not allowed to know who is his father? And it turns out that God did not really need a house after all. Well, yes, being descended from Tubal Cain Hiram Abiff was indeed high-born, although the fact that he was known as 'the widow's son' would suggest he wasn't fully disclosing his origins. You know, I think the Hiram referred to in the passage from the Jewish Encyclopedia may be the other Hiram, the prince of Tyre, who happened to be Hiram Abiff's employer. If you think about it, Hiram Abiff could not have said he had survived Solomon.
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