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Post by penfold on Feb 20, 2008 7:28:14 GMT
So why do they need to charge fee's for degree's posted out by USPS?
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 20, 2008 8:00:42 GMT
Pilgrims lodge is looking at opening up to a wider, international membership base, and I feel the concept may well suit isolated Brethren. Please note that degrees would still be conferred in duly formed lodges. I removed the contact details but will supply by PM, for those interested. What is the Pilgrims Lodge? The Pilgrims Lodge is a nonlocal Lodge of the Eastern Order of International Co-Freemasonry intended for members of the Order in North America who do not live close enough to one of the local Lodges to participate regularly in its Masonic Communications. Those who are new to Freemasonry or who have not yet been raised to the Degree of Master Mason may apply to join the Pilgrims Lodge as corresponding members. Persons who are accepted but are not already Freemasons will come to a full Masonic Lodge---in either Wheaton, Illinois (a suburb of Chicago), or Atlanta, Georgia---for initiation, usually on a Saturday. Those Lodges were founded in 1928 and 1943 respectively and have operated continuously since their foundations. Members of Pilgrims Lodge receive monthly messages and papers concerning Freemasonry (its practices, purposes, ideals, history, symbols, etc.) and have a Preceptor to correspond with about those papers. They will be expected to devote time (preferably weekly, but at their own convenience) to study of the papers, to meditation on them, and to a short individual ritual based on the full Ritual done in Masonic Lodges. Advancement to the higher Degrees of Fellowcraft and Master Mason depends on the individual’s response to the study papers and requires attendance at communications of a full Masonic Lodge for each advancement ceremony. Advancement to the Degree of Master Mason normally takes at least a year, but will vary according to the readiness of the person. Brethren who are already Masons in a recognized jurisdiction (such as an AFAAM Grand Lodge or various other bodies that observe the Landmarks of Masonry) may apply for affiliation and, when accepted, will be admitted in their highest Masonic Degree (and with their appropriate Scottish Rite and York Rite status). Master Masons receive the same monthly messages and papers as other members of the Pilgrims Lodge, but have no obligation to respond to them, though responses are always welcomed. The one-time initiation fee for someone not yet a Freemason is $60.00; the one-time affiliation fee for someone already a Freemason is $10.00. Annual dues for Pilgrims Lodge are $30.00. Dues include a subscription to the Order’s magazine, The Morning Star, which forms part of the Lodge’s study program. Pilgrims Lodge has members from Massachusetts to California, from Washington State to Florida, and from Quebec to Texas. The Brethren of Pilgrims Lodge are seeds around whom we hope eventually to form Triangles of three or more members each for shared study and mutual support, from which in turn a full Lodge can develop. One aim is to establish first Triangles and then Lodges in various locations around North America. Information about the Eastern Order of International Co-Freemasonry is available on our Web site (http://comasonic.net). Specific questions about the Order or the Pilgrims Lodge may be sent by e-mail to **** or by postal mail to ****. The Eastern Order is an international body some of whose Lodges are now more than a hundred years old. It is most numerous in India, New Zealand, and Brazil, but also has national administrations or Lodges in Argentina, Costa Rica, France, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Spain, and North America. It works traditional Masonic rites, but has as its special characteristics both a conviction that Masonry is a spiritual path in the tradition of the Ancient Mysteries, harmonious with various religious traditions, not limited to any one, and also a dedication to the equality of men and women in all aspects of life, including Freemasonry.
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Post by leonardo on Feb 20, 2008 8:20:52 GMT
Have any of you actually spoen with Gilbert, the leader of the Esoteric Freemasons? Of course Ed King never actually speaks with anyone or tries to learn the facts about those which he writes. I've spoken with Gilbert a couple of times and I don't think he is running any kind of scam. Here's the real story. Gilbert used to be a regular Mason but was more interested in the esoteric side of things. A Gnostic church that began back in the 1930's (date ?) and based on Freemasonry and the Kaballah changed its name in the 1970's (date ?) to the Esoteric Freemasons. (I don't remember the exact dates. Sorry) This group believes that Freemasonry is more or less a religion, and as such should be open to everyone. They don't claim to be "regular" or even interested in speculative Freemasonry. It's just a small group of mystics pursuing things in their own way. Since they were very honest in answering all of my questions and never prentended to be anything they are not, it would be unjust to label them a "scam". Believe it or not talking to people is a much better way to get accurate information about something than endless speculations and attempts at deductive reasoning based on pseudo facts. :-) Jeff, I'd be interested to know if you, or any Masonic organisation you represent, would allow someone who was never initiated into Freemasonry, to visit and sit in lodge with you armed simply with a 35 dollar certificate issued by Gilbert?
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Post by devoutfreemason on Feb 20, 2008 18:54:00 GMT
So why do they need to charge fee's for degree's posted out by USPS? There are GL's in the USA like GL of Ohio who do mass "cattle call" like raisings and yes they charge money for it. What is the big difference?
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Post by Okunnurleitandi on Feb 20, 2008 20:48:43 GMT
So why do they need to charge fee's for degree's posted out by USPS? There are GL's in the USA like GL of Ohio who do mass "cattle call" like raisings and yes they charge money for it. What is the big difference? Perhaps you have to be there to receive it? Personally I am against mass- anything in Masonry and I think Mail-Order masonry is not masonry at all.
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Post by maximus on Feb 20, 2008 20:58:13 GMT
I can send off a few dollars and get a certificate that says I'm an ordained minister. Does that actually make me one? I think not.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Feb 20, 2008 21:38:44 GMT
Ordination only applies to the state licencing needed to perform weddings and funeral rites. If the organization you paid the money to online is accredited in your state you would eligable to be ordained.
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Post by penfold on Feb 20, 2008 23:33:20 GMT
I can send off a few dollars and get a certificate that says I'm an ordained minister. Does that actually make me one? I think not. I got mine for free! ;D
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Post by maximus on Feb 21, 2008 0:01:55 GMT
I can send off a few dollars and get a certificate that says I'm an ordained minister. Does that actually make me one? I think not. I got mine for free! ;D Cool.
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Post by leonardo on Feb 21, 2008 0:10:20 GMT
So, from the Internet you can obtain a certificate saying you are a Freemason or an ordained Minister.
Does this mean you can also get a University Diploma certificate, as well ;d
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Post by maximus on Feb 21, 2008 0:39:34 GMT
Sure, for the low price of $35.00, you too can be a Freemasonic Ordained University Graduate. If you place your order within the next 15 minutes, we'll throw in a handy bottle opening key-fob! Click on the clown icon on www.doofus.com! ;D
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Post by maximus on Feb 21, 2008 0:41:52 GMT
P.S., that's not an actual link, but it came out like one!
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Post by leonardo on Feb 21, 2008 0:43:05 GMT
Sure, for the low price of $35.00, you too can be a Freemasonic Ordained University Graduate. If you place your order within the next 15 minutes, we'll throw in a handy bottle opening key-fob! Click on the clown icon on www.doofus.com! ;D Sounds good to me. Sign me up!
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Post by antoninus9 on Feb 21, 2008 4:47:59 GMT
I paid $250 to join the Scottish Rite and all I got was the ability to watch six poorly performed plays and a fake gold ring.
I paid about $125 for the three degrees of the Blue Lodge and all I got was a bunch of old men leading me around in circles trying to remember the words of a ritual that none of them had clue what it meant.
Gilbert charges $35 (or whatever) and gives you study materials and attempts to teach you mediatation and other spiritual practices.
I'm sorry but I don't see much difference. If anything at least Gilbert tries to get you to think through reading.
Leo, to answer your question, I don't think any of the Esoteric Masons would have any interest trying to attend any of our lodges (yours, mine, the UGLE, or anything else). They see this as a religion, not a philosophy or fraternity.
In the end different people need different things to be happy. Let them be happy. There's no need to attack them just because they're different from you. (If, however, they're corrupt or involved in illegal activities then expose them!)
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Post by leonardo on Feb 21, 2008 8:38:28 GMT
Thanks Jeff for your response. I see clearer now where you are coming from and what you represent.
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Post by antoninus9 on Feb 21, 2008 22:16:58 GMT
Bro. Leo,
It seems that Freemasons are sometimes too quick to judge other people without a full understanding of what the other group is really about. Ed King is the worst for this type of behavior.
He reaches the wildest conclusions from the most common events. For instance: he concludes that the GOUSA is a "shell game" because it changed its name. He makes the same conclusion about Sirius lodge. Any Mason who has read the history of the Fraternity knows that the Grand Lodge of London (est. 1717) changed its name to the Grand Lodge of England a few years after its founding and then again to the UGLE about 80 years later.
Lodges change their name as well. It is a common practice in the USA. What is today Halcyon began as one lodge in 1875, then in the 1880's it changed to Halcyon and then in the 20th century it became something else and then around 2001 it changed back to Halcyon.
Ed attacks others in a similar way. He doesn't know them or make any attempt to understand what they're doing, he just goes after them with guns blazing. His motto seems to be the same as the 101st Airborne: "Kill them all, let God sort them out."
If members of the Esoteric Masons were dissatisfied or felt they had been ripped off then I think we would hear about it through blogs and forums. I'm not aware of a single complaint against them.
We need to be careful and take a balanced and honest look at people before judging them. Masonry teaches tolerance and we should try to live up to that high ideal. (at least in my opinion we should.)
This forum has always been a place where sincere, honest, open-minded Masons could express their ideas. It's an example of how brother/sisterhood can work. Let's not allow ourselves to be dragged into the mud of name calling and mud-slinging against people who have done us no wrong.
S&F
Jeff
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2211
Member
INTELLIGENTIBUS VERITATEM
Posts: 104
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Post by 2211 on Oct 25, 2019 22:48:51 GMT
It took me a few years to officially apply to become a freemason. One of my concerns was the future of freemasonry.
A large number of Lodges will probably be closing within the next 5-10 years. There are barely enough members to keep a single lodge going, some associate with other lodges to prevent it from going into darkness. I waited to join in order to complete research in a just cause.
I know in my heart masonry will continue.
The spark won't be from a global movement to heal the earth but from a concern of a growing epidemic of illness affecting loved ones. IMHO
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Post by peter2 on Oct 26, 2019 1:31:58 GMT
>The spark won't be from a global movement to heal the earth
Freemasons are told in the first degree that the Freemasons' lodge/temple extends from E to W and N to S and from the center of the Earth to the Heavens.
This is a very large temple and unlike the ancient brethren that built sacred structures carefully placed on a managed sacred landscape, modern brethren have confined their non-ritual works to social events and charities.
Fortunately the new generation of school students have some sense of the task given to humanity of managing the planet with due respect for all species and beings.
Due respect for all beings will progressively reduce the scope for industries to propagate toxic products and processes. This will remove much of the causes of chronic illness including in humans.
Managing the planetary temple requires skills that were taught in ancient times and are increasingly leaking into the public domain. There will be new social structures to teach those skills that modern Freemasonry veils as the lost genuine secrets. Has any GL sent out a search party? After 300 years, we still wait but with little hope.
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2211
Member
INTELLIGENTIBUS VERITATEM
Posts: 104
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Post by 2211 on Oct 26, 2019 2:01:18 GMT
As above, so below. -The ancient brethren were wise
In older times a guild member who was sick with a common cold seemed to be failing the inner work.
This new generation of what you speak is misguided. The general sense to do better on this planet is admirable however supporting technologies such as wind turbines to generate power has an opposite effect, killing scores of bird life. Hypocritical
As a result of protest, the common man is taxed.. something that normally divides a population.
Perhaps this new generation of what you speak should instead target the producers(manufacturers) of harmful and toxic technologies.
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Post by peter2 on Oct 26, 2019 2:55:31 GMT
>technologies such as wind turbines
It is indeed a primitive technology.
Much of the advanced technology is not in the public domain. For example, do people really believe that the chemical rockets developed in the 1940s are still the best interplanetary technology we have?
Are the nuclear weapons of the 1950s still the most powerful technology possessed by Earth humans?
>should instead target the producers(manufacturers) of harmful and toxic technologies.
That is indeed happening across a range on industries: financial, chemical, pharmaceutical, automotive, construction, political...
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