|
Post by taylorsman on Jan 28, 2005 12:19:23 GMT
As I thought and to me it shows that Women have much to teach us in this respect.
I have to thank you, and Hubert, JMD, and of course Whistler for taking the veils from my eyes regarding the role of Women in Freemasonry.
For ages I had gone along with the accepted wisdom, the "Party Line" and thought that at best there were a few women indulging in Imitative Mummery, wearing Aprons and Collars, acting out the same Rituals , probable Emulation, and calling each other "Brother".
I thank you for opening my eyes and hope that , although I am 52 this year, I live to see a relaxation of the prohibitions on more Fraternal Relationships between Traditional and Co-Masonry, but only where this is wanted by both Lodges or Brethren involved.
Until then I will have to abide by the existing Rules, as I say I have to OBEY them but I DONT have to agree with nor LIKE them, but perhaps, as happened in NZ, I will one day be able to sit with Co-Masons in a Temple, in our respective Regalia (although the Lodge may be "called off") and enjoy such a Lecture or Paper.
Until then we have this Forum where such ideas can be freely discussed without fear of sarcastic put downs etc.
Pax Vobiscum
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Jan 28, 2005 18:19:56 GMT
I have to thank you, and Hubert, JMD, and of course Whistler for taking the veils from my eyes regarding the role of Women in Freemasonry. My own level of understanding on ladies being involved in Freemasonry, when I initially became interested in FM, was practically non-existent. But I'm delighted state that as my understanding has increased I now have much more appreciation for their involvement and their role in Freemasonry as a whole. This is in part thanks to the many a wonderful posts that I have read on this forum and several sites that I have visited on the Internet.
|
|
|
Post by whistler on Jan 28, 2005 22:05:49 GMT
I do not know anybody who belongs to Ladies only Lodges, If it is their choice and works for them fine.
For me my Freemasonry is genderless, and having both genders in the Lodge I find balance.
To me Ladies only Freemasonry has the same lack of balance as would expect to find in male only ritual.
|
|
|
Post by Yoki on Jan 31, 2005 0:03:50 GMT
I personally feel its time that male Masonry and some of the men who belong be dragged kicking and screaming into the twenty first century. It won’t come down to a directive from on high within this organization but from a change of attitude from its members. I say this because no matter what is decided the ballet box will be the decider. Long ago in Greece women were locked away so that they would not pollute society thousand of years later a women Prime Minister lead their society. (mind you it did take a while). Once women's brains were considered smaller than that of a man, now they attend university in greater numbers. And now the assertion that they find computers less interesting than their male counterparts. Computer use is wide spread and well patronized by both sexes, with the young leading the way. It was teenagers in Sweden that came up the concept of TXT (text messages) and often they who teach their parents how to use the computer and cell phone. Why do members of women only Masonic groups not post on Masonic Forums when there is no lack of females on other forums. Maybe once again it comes back to the perception that their male brethren have especially if females are considered only to Masonicly play act. The bottom line quite literally is this; with out female participation and acceptances the Masonic movement is only half the organization it could be and spiritually out of balance.
|
|
|
Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Jan 31, 2005 6:47:32 GMT
Strong words Yoki, tho' it does not surprise me. It has to be aired from time to time.
All GOOD things take time, and at least you are doing your part in promoting this balance.
We may even have a Woman President in the USA in 2008. and that is equally as hard, bearing in mind that the " UNION" was established by Freemasons!
|
|
bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
|
Post by bod on Feb 1, 2005 12:31:00 GMT
Yoki while there are many male only masons who feel that women only play act, there is an equal, if not larger, number who do see our sisters in masonry as just that - masons.
There is also the official line from UGLE that respects the role of some sections of women only masonry.
|
|
|
Post by waynecowley on Feb 1, 2005 13:32:55 GMT
Yoki while there are many male only masons who feel that women only play act, there is an equal, if not larger, number who do see our sisters in masonry as just that - masons. Couldn't agree more - in fact one of my work colleagues is a lady mason (Order of Women Freemasons) and we have had many very interesting discussions within the bounds of our respective obligations. She is very jealous of our ability to visit so frequently as, with so many fewer lodges, lady masons are very restricted in comparison. The SW of my Mark lodge is married to another member of OWF Wayne
|
|
|
Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Feb 2, 2005 4:47:36 GMT
Wayne, Suggest to this lady friend of yours that she contact local CoMasonic Lodges, as I am sure they would permit her to visit.
|
|
|
Post by waynecowley on Feb 2, 2005 8:17:53 GMT
But would her GL allow it?
From our discussions, it seems they keep more or less in step with UGLE on many things - certainly on Ritual (as far as we have been able to discuss without the secrets)
Wayne
|
|
|
Post by pastmasterchris on Feb 11, 2005 14:01:43 GMT
She is very jealous of our ability to visit so frequently as, with so many fewer lodges, lady masons are very restricted in comparison. The SW of my Mark lodge is married to another member of OWF Wayne Wayne et al Just to let you know that I have finally found my way onto this particular forum. As a member of HFAF I can honestly say that I vist and attend far more meetings than my partner who is a member of UGLE. Apart from my Craft Lodge, I also belong to Mark, Chapter, RAM, Rose Croix & KT and visit many other of our Craft Lodges.
|
|
|
Post by waynecowley on Feb 11, 2005 15:13:39 GMT
Good to hear that visiting is so freely available within HFAF Chris - to my mind visiting is one of the real pleasures of freemasonry
Wayne
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Feb 11, 2005 16:47:39 GMT
CHRIS WROTE :
Just to let you know that I have finally found my way onto this particular forum. As a member of HFAF I can honestly say that I vist and attend far more meetings than my partner who is a member of UGLE.
WOW,Chris what a lucky man your partner is.You are the ideal women for some of the 24/7 male masons who live the dream.
Just imagine not having to earn brownie points for attending too many meetings.
Chris you have just quashed my life theory to bits:
So some women DO understand men ?? ;D ;D
Chris i llook forward to your posts and have no doubt you have plenty of experience in female masonry.i look forward to learning a few things .
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Feb 11, 2005 23:17:53 GMT
Yes Lee! Just think, you would never have any problem practicing your Ritual!
|
|
Michael
Member
... as you have passed through the ceremony of your initiation...
Posts: 326
|
Post by Michael on Feb 12, 2005 7:44:18 GMT
I bet he does
|
|
|
Post by ingo on Feb 14, 2005 13:19:30 GMT
Yoki, you might be right that changes in society will open official freemasonic connections even between co-masonic or male-only orders. I say male-only because almost every women-only order has official relations with co-masonic ones. If the rumors are right, the swedish freemasonry might change first. As few of us know the Strict Observance in germany and Sweden planned to establish an own co-masonic order in 18. century. It did not happen because the Strict Observance split off. But in our days the strong and powerfull swedish freemasonry - which is for christian males only - tries hard to follow the social changes of their homecountry. More and more swedish are immigrants from diffferent parts of the world and often non-christian. Swedish freemasonry discusses hardly if the order should be opened for non-christians too. So to say - as in 18. century - freemasonry should allow a social melange and emanzipation of social groups who are not integrated in society yet. Remarkable: Under this aspect it might happen that swedish "regular" masonry creates a co-masonic order? Well until 1997 the GM of the male-only order has always been the king of sweden or a prince. The next "king" will be a queen... Victoria.... maybe the swedish order will follow then his new female "vicarius salomonis"....
|
|
|
Post by munkholt on Feb 22, 2005 17:37:17 GMT
If the rumors are right, the swedish freemasonry might change first. As I am not yet part of the Danish (equivalent of the Swedish) order of Freemasons, I have yet to "feel the water" on this matter, but the official line from the Order seems to be that it will never happen. On the other hand, the latest Danish Grandmaster (stepping down in May) has opened Freemasonry to a degree that would have seemed impossible just a few years back (actually putting the name of the Order on the outside of the grand lodge building, allowing national tv to shoot inside the building, inviting the press to hear about freemasonry, having tours for the public, expanding web-presence, etc.!). We've had a queen since '72 (royalty has played an important part in Danish freemasonry same as in Sweden), and she never got to play any part in the Order. Well, maybe FM wasn't ready for such a radical change. I am flabbergasted and excited about this, but it's news to me, and I will gently probe for more info when I get the chance (I had planned to keep the lid on this until I was inside the walls ... and I might still - it seems like a big "political" issue, and I don't want to embarrass my proposer with a big fat faux pas on my first grand night ).
|
|