Michael
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2005 10:37:36 GMT
I received a post this morning on another site and thought it might be of interest. I copy it below with the authors permission:- The latest meeting (25 Feb) of the South Australian Lodge of Research No. 216 proved stimulating and most enjoyable. Guests in attendance included four female Co-Freemasons and two who are members of the Order of Women Freemasons. After the Lodge had opened, conducted routine business and closed, guests were admitted. The meeting then took the form of a colloquium. Each of the four Co-Freemasons spoke, and one member of OWF (who had been initiated exactly 30 years earlier, to the night). There was ample time for questions; discussion overflowed into the buffet-style Festive Board. There is one Co-Freemasonry Lodge locally, and two Lodges of the Order of Women Freemasons (OWF). The Co-Freemasons in Australia use a rather more esoteric ritual than that with which most Freemasons would be familiar (I think they use the Lauderdale ritual). The OWF use a ritual very similar to Emulation. There are Co-Freemasonry lodges in most states of Australia. The OWF lodges are to be found only in Adelaide - expansion interstate is unlikely as this would require the ceremonial team to travel from England for the purpose. There are about 30 members in the local Co- Freemasons Lodge and 25-30 in each of the OWF Lodges. It was stated that Co-Freemasons in Australia work "to the Glory of TGAOTU" - AND "to the perfection of humanity", using up to 7 VSLs as and when necessary; members include males and females. OWF Lodges have only females as members. After initiation into a Co-Freemasonry Lodge, the EA remains under the tutelage of the Junior Warden for about a year, then under the Senior Warden for the year after the FC degree. Co-Freemasonry in the Australian Federation "Le Droit Humain" is a comprehensive system including the three Craft degrees, Mark, Royal Arch, Mariners, Knights Templar, as well as Rose Croix and Grand Elect Knights Kadosh. The 32° and 33° are reserved for Masonic administrators. Co-Freemasonry has about 27,000 members in 60 countries, on five continents. Each national Federation is self-governing. There is a Supreme Council based in Paris, presided over by the Grand Master. The OWF have a Mark Lodge in Adelaide in addition to the two Craft Lodges. The HQ of the OWF Grand Lodge is in London. Some web sites of interest: www.australianco-masonry.netfirms.com/www.bradford.ac.uk/webofhiram/?section=order_women_freemasonswww.freemasonrytoday.com/orderwf.shtmlfreemasonry.bcy.ca/Writings/women.htmlwww.hfaf.org/The W. Master conducted proceedings very well. A simple but good quality repast followed the colloquium.
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 27, 2005 13:10:33 GMT
Thank you for that Bro Michael. Maybe this is the first step on a road to greater cooperation. Now I don't see mixed Lodges in my lifetime under UGLE etc, but non Ritual Joint Meetings such as this are the way to go. It's a bit like Ecumenism in the Christian Churches. I don't envisage the "Romano-Bapto-Episcipo-Presbyterian" Church but do see in most parts of Britain far greater cooperation and joint services between those denominations than say 30 or 40 years ago.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2005 13:22:25 GMT
Something else from the same person... ------------ You might also be interested to see a short version of a report commisioned by the Immediate Past Grand Master of South Australia entitled : "The New Millenium, Freemasonry and Women" - available online at at www.freemason.org/ims/I should perhaps point out that women have spoken at meetings of Quatuor Coronati Lodge in London, on several occasions. In the case of the meeting in SA on 25/2, the Lodge was closed before lady Freemasons were invited into the room. I imagine much the same occurred at QC. ------------------------ I hope this brother will at least visit this sight (if he has not already registered?) as he may have quite a lot to offer us. He is I believe on his way to Alice Springs today, or is that tonight? As for greater co-operation, I think it will be in those parts of the world where UGLE doea not execise control that we will slowly begin to see a greater understanding.
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Post by a on Feb 27, 2005 13:24:38 GMT
I don't see mixed Lodges in my lifetime under UGLE Could you see within your lifetime UGLE reciprocating the recognition given to it by comasonic lodges, hence allowing visitation by UGLE members to comasonic lodges, even if only on a one way basis?
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Post by a on Feb 27, 2005 13:30:41 GMT
Also while I think about it.
If Freemasons can't find it within them to work in harmony together, to be tolerant towards each other, to help each other etc, then what hope is there for anyone else, who doesn't have the valuable tools that Freemasonry offer?
Yes there are differences, and sticking points, but at the end of the day Freemasons should be able to rise above all of this, and build.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Feb 27, 2005 13:33:54 GMT
Given that the restriction is only by UGLE and not as far as I am aware the 'other way round' I think there will have to be a lifting if only to legalize that which is already happening.
TFor UGLE to acknowledge the existence of other Masonic organization has to happen. IMHO
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 27, 2005 13:36:20 GMT
That is UGLE permitting its Members to attend Ceremonies at Co-Masonic Lodges even if they were only spectators and could neither join nor take an active part? I'd like to think so and am aware that there are some Regular Brethren already who turn a blind eye to the Rules and do attend Co-Masonic Meetings but keep that to themselves, there was even a poster on the Other Forum who was quite open about doing so. However, given that we are not permitted to visit Men Only Lodges under two of the Grand Lodges in France, nor those in Greece then I can't see UGLE ever permitting such a practice in the near future. "T For UGLE to acknowledge the existence of other Masonic organization has to happen." Michael, it's a bit like the elephant in the sitting room then. Or if you prefer, "It wears an Apron, It meets in Lodges, it addresses its Members as Brother, it uses the same or very similar Rituals" but it's NOT a Freemason, it's a Duck!"
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Post by a on Feb 27, 2005 13:41:59 GMT
As for greater co-operation, I think it will be in those parts of the world where UGLE doea not execise control that we will slowly begin to see a greater understanding. Michael, clearly working from the outside I have a limited perspective here. But, UGLE, if it chose to, could blaze the trail and lead, and I think that its position in global Freemasonry could be strengthened enormously with the respect gained by its leadership. Yes most UGLE members may have a specific view as to who can and who can't be a Freemason, but that need not be a stumbling block. There are ways of going forward that could preserve such views. The other side of this equation is also simple. There is a spiritual awakening on this planet, the new age movement, wicca revival, interest in finding out more, more questioning and less acceptance of old ways. These trends can't be controlled and fought, they can only be accepted and embraced. It is quite feasible that if UGLE maintains the status quo and does nothing that within a decade it could wake up and realise that it is now playing second fiddle. But I would be amazed if UGLE did not realise this. And as we can see UGLE is changing quite fast just now. Time will tell whetehr or not it is fast enough. But the real issue is not UGLE per see but its Provinces and Lodges. Consider the document prepared by London Metropolitan (or whatever it is called) telling Lodges how to evolve. Common sense stuff, but very radical to most lodges I would imagine.
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staffs
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Staffs
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Post by staffs on Feb 27, 2005 13:44:13 GMT
Michael,
The list also had a posting about women freemasons i believe ?
I find nothing wrong with women only or co masonry and feel that there are probably quite a few stalwart male only masons who are totally opposed to the very existence of these organistaions in their own right.
How stupid and ignorant this sort of attitude is and since this open forum has devoloped i have learnt so so much from the Women and the co masons here and feel they are more than equal to male only freemasons.We are however created equal.
If only some of these antis could open their eyes they will find they will find even more light and understanding.
between us here we share each others experiences and learn from each other and widen our knowledge and understanding.
in fact this forum provides a great stage for meeting of minds and long may it continue that way.
Harmony exists.
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Post by a on Feb 27, 2005 14:41:53 GMT
Indeed, and all credit to you Staffs. Do you realise that you , and your fellow moderators, have been able to achieve something that the "powers that be" have failed to do?
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
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Post by staffs on Feb 27, 2005 14:49:14 GMT
Stewart.
I have not acheived this alone.all the credit goes to those who have supported it .
As i say time after time "It is your forum"
You all make and shape it to what it is.
Many minds meeting together with differences of opinions and ideas and willing to share them with each other.
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Post by whistler on Feb 27, 2005 18:15:39 GMT
It is Catch 22
If UGLE should permit it's members to visit a Co-masonic Lodge and not allow a Comason to make a return visit that would not be good mannered.
It is impossible for UGLE to allow Co-masons to visit because Many Many UGLE Masons became Freemasons because it is a Male only Domain.. that is fact, and history. .
I suspect that change will only come when the older generation passes on
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 27, 2005 18:30:13 GMT
Possibly so, Whistler. Of course that supposes that the newer Brethren make up their own minds and are not indoctrinated in the present Party Line by the WHADITW Brigade in Dark Blue.
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
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Post by staffs on Feb 27, 2005 18:34:05 GMT
IMO there are more co masons who would like to see inter visiting whereby i think the majority of regular masons do not wish to see it happen .
I think we should all be left to our own devices and one day visiting closed lodges may be allowed which i think is the only way it should happen.
We can all learn from each others ways .
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Post by foxcole on Mar 2, 2005 3:00:08 GMT
This does need to be approached carefully.
While I strongly maintain that all Masonry will benefit by official recognition of female Masons, this doesn't necessarily mean that I expect female-only or male-only orders to fling open their doors in universal conversion to co-masonry.
Now, considering that I'm not entered yet, though will be soon, here's how I see it. All Masons made a promise, in effect a contract, at their initiation. While in the male-only tradition part of that contract might now be considered outdated or ill-conceived with regard to recognition of fellow creatures, they still have a promise and an expectation to uphold, which they made in good faith.
In either male-only or female-only Masonry, participation in the works of their Lodge is for that reason not to be breached. That's fine. These people will perform their duties best under the promises they made and under the expectations they had when they petitioned or formed at their obligation. This is where they find strength and community. No one has the right to challenge that, and even if they had, it's not subject to challenge.
However...
That said, I still do believe that Masonry will be strengthened by mutual inclusion and recognition. So how can these two views be reconciled?
They can, allowing an adjustment. Clearly, regular Lodge meetings must remain intact, to uphold tradition and obligation. But, there may still be a way for such Masons tp experience and (hopefully) appreciate the strength of the full range of Masonry.
There could be one or two formally recognized exchanges where inter-order visits are sanctioned and endorsed. It should be up to the individual Lodge as to whether or not to accept such visitors, but at the same time every Lodge should be encouraged to recognize the Masonic nature of each request to visit (assuming, in my ignorance, that it's done by prearrangement).
This provides individual Lodges autonomy regarding their obligations, allows each Order to support their promises, yet allows everyone to legitimately suspend the obligations for one or two sanctioned occasions. It satisfies our natural human curiosity and at the same time strengthens all Masonic life. We need not intrude on each other, but we should be able to commune under careful conditions, and we can all be strengthened and satisified by the mutual experience without fear of recrimination.
Yes, we can all coexist with respect and without invasion.
Still, I'm not yet a Mason, so you may well regard this with a grain or a shaker of salt. I use 'we' when I'm not yet one of the 'we'. I hope I haven't made an idiot of myself as I'm wont to do and I hope I haven't by my inexperience offended you.
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 2, 2005 8:28:26 GMT
Foxcole, most Rules and Laws by which Humanity are ruled are made by Humanity and can be changed by them. Just think of the Laws etc which have changed in our own lifetimes, some new restrictions or duties introduced, some abolished. So there is nothing to stop Regular Men Only Freemasonry as for example run by UGLE from permitting Intervisitation between its Members and those of Co-Masonry if the will to do was present and in the majority. It would upset many Members I'm sure and could even lead to Schism, but it COULD be done.
Again the Individual has their Personal Conscience and Inner Values and in holding membership of some organisation may dissent from a particular rule whilst accepting the majority of same. A good example being RCs who reject and ignore their Church's ban on Contraception, but still attend Mass and take the Sacrament. Even more so the Nuremberg Judgement after WW2 put Individual Conscience above Collective Duty.
So we are not talking about Tablets of Stone but Custom and Practice. Once "Cripples" were prohibited from Masonic Membership, now there are many Disabled in The Craft and Lodges and Temples make provision for them as in other walks of Life.
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ricardo
Member
Australia
Posts: 161
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Post by ricardo on Mar 3, 2005 11:15:37 GMT
Something else from the same person... ------------ You might also be interested to see a short version of a report commisioned by the Immediate Past Grand Master of South Australia entitled : "The New Millenium, Freemasonry and Women" - available online at at www.freemason.org/ims/I should perhaps point out that women have spoken at meetings of Quatuor Coronati Lodge in London, on several occasions. In the case of the meeting in SA on 25/2, the Lodge was closed before lady Freemasons were invited into the room. I imagine much the same occurred at QC. ------------------------ I hope this brother will at least visit this sight (if he has not already registered?) as he may have quite a lot to offer us. He is I believe on his way to Alice Springs today, or is that tonight? Bro. Michael, I have joined the list - thank you for telling me about it. I was in central Australia to attend a wedding held on a hill close to the centre of the continent. I have enjoyed reading the various postings on this forum.
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Post by Yoki on Mar 4, 2005 6:25:17 GMT
After the Lodge had opened, conducted routine business and closed, guests were admitted. The meeting then took the form of a colloquium
The same has happened here in Christchurch NZ ,I personally did not attend but was told it was a interesting evening. The reaction was two fold with some very keen for contact ,while others by their reaction wanted nothing to do with Co Masonry. We have also had visits from Craft Masons and one would like to believe that this is the dawn of a new era . Quite frankly I'm not holding my breath as I think that change may have to wait till a new generation are in charge.
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Post by Temple on Mar 31, 2005 16:01:04 GMT
I wonder if the issue of UGLE recognition is hampered by finances. They own/rent many properties and I understand they finance hospitals and schools. Surely anything which has the potential to decrease membership would affect their financial position. I'm sure there's more to it than that but unless they really ARE hiding the lost treasure of the Knights Templars this must be a serious consideration.
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Post by Proton on Mar 31, 2005 17:06:38 GMT
Throughout the 20 years plus that I have been involved in the Craft, at a certain number of festive boards, I have been made aware that a number of brethrens' wives are infact members of women only lodges. In some instances they use the same apron (not the one in the kitchen!) and ritual (Emulation) There exists in the UK two womens' only Grand Lodges one the OWF, and the HFAF. There is also a mixed order of Co-masons, whose GM, a woman, was at the Cannonbury Conference last November. Whilst lodges can hold discussions, colloquia etc, at which women are present, because the UGLE rules are that we are a men only order, there is I assume a similar order that women only GLs are for women. Yes I grant you that they have Gentlemens' Nights, the equivalent of the Ladies nights, but for the mens' ony and womens' only lodges to meet in lodge a big barrier on both sides has to come down. It is not about finances, but about recognition, and compatibility. There is in the UK a number of other orders besides the ones that we have been discussing. e.g. The Oddfellows. which a number of brethren are members of, so I understand, it is an order that is compatible with masonry, but not recognised. Proton
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