FireMist
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Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Mar 4, 2008 4:27:31 GMT
What is the difference of the various groups here in the US? I've discovered both;
Int'l Order of Co-Freemasonry - American Federation and Honorable Order of American Co-Masonry
and possibly The Eastern Order of International Co-Freemasonry
do they recognize each other? Does any orders in Britian recognize them?
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imakegarb
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One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
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Post by imakegarb on Mar 4, 2008 4:44:38 GMT
Hi firemst! Welcome to MFOL. I'm not authorized to speak for my jurisdiction but I'll do my best to answer your questions. The three bodies you list are independent from each other. The first, is LDH. The second is the Obedience to which I belong. The third, like the first two, has its own history. All three are Co-Masonic and there really isn't a terrible lot of difference between them, though many do play up what differences there are. The first does not recognize the second and third. The second and third recognize the first as well as each other. LDH in Great Britain, as I understand it, recognizes the first but not second or third. All the above is prone to correction. I hope that's at least slightly clearer than mud
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Post by maat on Mar 4, 2008 4:47:35 GMT
What is the difference of the various groups here in the US? I've discovered both; Int'l Order of Co-Freemasonry - American Federation and Honorable Order of American Co-Masonry and possibly The Eastern Order of International Co-Freemasonry do they recognize each other? Does any orders in Britian recognize them? I can only state that The Eastern Order of Int Co-Masonry is a break away from The International Order of Co-Masonry Le Droit Humain, American Fed. (I belong to the Australian Fed). Naturally, they do not recognise each other ... and so it goes. I sometimes wonder if the Tower of Babel was a reference to deliberately confusing communication, rather than language. Welcome to the forum and we are composed of folk from Orders everywhere who talk to each other no matter what. We are a friendly lot on the whole. Maat
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imakegarb
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One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
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Post by imakegarb on Mar 4, 2008 5:21:12 GMT
Welcome to the forum and we are composed of folk from Orders everywhere who talk to each other no matter what. We are a friendly lot on the whole. This is true. If things get too heated around here - and sometimes they do - just crawl under Ma'at's table for a pint or two or six. Everyone there will be glad to see you
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Post by leonardo on Mar 4, 2008 8:03:22 GMT
Hi Firemst, welcome you to the forum. Thank you for your interest in CFM (Co-Freemasonry). Hopefully someday you'll petioned for membership and if you do please let us know.
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FireMist
Member
Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Mar 4, 2008 12:10:48 GMT
Thank you for your warm welcome. As a woman who cannot prove either of her Grandfather's membership to the masons, even the E. Star is closed to me. (both died years before I was born after long illnesses)
I'd been interested in years, but only seriously looked at it about 4 years ago. Doors were closed and I went on about my life.
Now, searching for informaiton on Women and their role in the trades here in the USA in the mid to late 18th century, (family history that proves they did work alongside their husbands many times, but is a verbal history) I kept coming across mentions about women being masons. It seems I am being pushed into the interest again. I did not know Co-masons existed till about two months ago.
Int'l Order of Co-Freemasonry - American Federation Honorable Order of American Co-Masonry
These two are about equal distance from me to get to meetings...about 4 hours. A friend of mine who is a regular mason says, though if I were male I'd make an excellent mason, he doesn't think it is something I need, and definatley don't need to be driving 8 hours round trip. Perhaps he's right, but I also remember his pained look when I told him that the Eastern Star had closed the door 4 years ago. He'd not known I'd asked. He cautioned me that there is a difference between the co-mason groups and to be careful.
A voice contact with a representative of the one organization explained much to me. She is in Colorado. With the other group, I've had only email conversation despite them having my phone numbers. They simply state that they cannot tell me th edifferences or elaborate on the split between the two. This person points me to generic informaiton posted online. What the lady says to me on the phone makes sence, and I am 98% to the point of asking her for more, but I think it's wise to follow my friends advise and be patient and know what I'm getting into. Seems (various sources) the split here in the US had to do with basic theology of one group accepting athiests who don't believe in the maker's hand as well as some land rights. So far, it's all hearsay. I'd hate to choose one group only because I enjoyed the conversation with a woman on the other end who projects much confidence and kindness... or to choose the other group because it is on the way to my mom's retirement property in the other direction.
So, here I am. Decided that if it were within 2 hours drive, I'd petition, but undecided as to which due to the rest. Apparently there are not any lodges closer.
I've posted on another board too. I'm in Central Ohio. half way between the Ohio R. and Lake Erie.
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FireMist
Member
Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Mar 4, 2008 12:12:12 GMT
PS imakegarb I like your Robert Burns quote
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Post by gipsyrose on Mar 4, 2008 12:54:19 GMT
Hi firemst and welcome.
I became a freemason in a co-masonic lodge in 2006. I took a while deciding where seemed right to be, and used people on forums like this for getting information until I felt clear about the next step to take.
All the best on your journey, and I'm sure we'll all be interested to hear how it's going, and very willing to answer questions.
gipsyrose
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Mar 4, 2008 15:56:37 GMT
Greetings again Firemist!! Thank you for your warm welcome. As a woman who cannot prove either of her Grandfather's membership to the masons, even the E. Star is closed to me. (both died years before I was born after long illnesses) I'm sure you already know that OES is *not* Masonry, though I hear it is a worthy path for many. I know Co-Masons who are in OES. However, I'm puzzled that OES would turn you away. I, verifiably, am not by blood related to any Freemasons and yet I received three invitations (all aimed at knocking me off my path but, still, kindly offered). Upon the third invitation, I explained to the very nice lady that I have no Masons in my family. She told me arrangements could be made (I had the impression someone was gonna adopt me ). I'm surprised they were not willing to do this for you. But then . . . if you are called to Masonry, OES will not be enough. I know they would do their best for you but, for a Freemason, it's like living on bread and water. So, perhaps, your experience with them was for the best. That is how far I drive to lodge. I live in Oregon but my lodge is in Washington. For me, it would be worth if even if I had to walk it ;D " Caution" is *always* a good word to bear in mind, especially when one's path is at stake. He is quite correct on that much, though the differences . . . I'm not so sure about that. I think I know who you talked to. She talked to me, too, so long ago (more than two years). She is a great Lady Your friend has given you good advice, patience is a good thing, but I see no harm in asking, especially since the line of communication has been opened. Not theology, exactly, as Freemasonry is not a religion. But that is one difference that some folks play up, that LDH will accept atheists. However, when you get down to it, it's not much of a difference. There are other minor differences as well, but I tend to consider them about as minor. Neither Obedience is closer to the Light than the other. I believe you would do well in either. Unfortunately, the amity issues between the two are such that you would need to choose one of them for your lodge attendance and membership. However, as I'm sure you've noted here, we *do* talk to each other. Heck, I've been in lodge with Bro. Cora, an LDH brother who hangs out here at MFOL and NOS. So I think you would not find yourself fully cut off from one group if you chose the other. And, truly, I hope, very much, that, in time, these amity issues will be cleared away. But even when they are, the two will remain separate Obediences. And Candidates then, as now, will still have to choose. And because the differences are so minor, I know it's not easy for you. For both Obediences are worthy of selection. As, I think, are you. Not at present. However, both Obediences are growing rather fast. I remain in hopes that, one day, we will open a lodge nearer where I live. Perhaps you will help found a lodge nearer where you live. Good luck to you
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Post by brandt on Mar 4, 2008 16:49:42 GMT
Just to add to the list of organizations. George Washington Union is also an American Co-Masonic organization.
Brandt
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Post by devoutfreemason on Mar 4, 2008 18:07:09 GMT
As Brother Brandt has stated George Washington Union is also a Co Masonic group. They are very much like a French LDH/Grand Orient Of France combination.
In my findings there are some differances.
Le Droit Humaine is the oldest and the largest (world wide) Co Masonic GL system. They are recognized by more GL's (Co Masonic, Malecraft and Feminine) than any other Co Masonic org. I found that to be important to me. Also, LDH has a wider range of types of lodges (Bessant/Ledbetter, French AASR, Emulation, RER, Strict Observance, Memphis Misraim) than the other Co Masonic groups.
American Federation Of Human Rights is the largest Co Masonic group currently in the USA. They are also very internet/technology savvy. As far as I know they work in the Bessant/Ledbetter ritual. More of a spirtual (Atient) feel than a secular (modern) feel than LDH. I also believe that they have a lifetime Supreme Commander so they are more like a Monarchy. Thier international presence is much smaller than LDH.
George Washington Union is heavily French influenced. The majority of members are French born as is the leadership. Firmly French (modern) secular Masonry. Thay work in the French AASR (French Modern Rite.)
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Post by corab on Mar 4, 2008 21:06:03 GMT
LDH in Great Britain, as I understand it, recognizes the first but not second or third. All the above is prone to correction. I hope that's at least slightly clearer than mud Mud pies are on me Just one tiny thing -- that the British Federation recognises "the first", i.e. the American Federation, is a given -- both belong to the same Order. And welcome on board, FireMist -- I like your name!
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Post by maat on Mar 4, 2008 21:54:53 GMT
I'd hate to choose one group only because I enjoyed the conversation with a woman on the other end who projects much confidence and kindness... or to choose the other group because it is on the way to my mom's retirement property in the other direction. Confidence and kindness or Convenience? Where's the choice?! I have met many masons who were neither confident or kind. These are still qualities to seek when considering joining an organisation. Masonry is NOT a religion, it IS a way of coming to realise your spiritual nature and how things work. It IS a commitment, but you CAN leave after one meeting if it not for you (you would be doing a disservice to yourself if you did, but you would not be harrassed or whatever-it is not an over zealous sect or anything like that). If you are eager to learn and serve your fellow man, which requires a measure of humility, if you realise that your own self can do with a bit of improving so that you can serve in a greater capacity - then Masonry is for you. I love a good Mystery and consider joining Masonry one of the best life decisions I have made. Just take your time and listen to what your heart says - in the meantime join in the forum talk. You don't even have to be a Mason to enjoy this site. You can learn lots here. Maat Pssst .... Your name tells me you would make a fine mason.
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Post by parisfred on Mar 6, 2008 7:48:47 GMT
hello, You have to ask all the questions that you want to ask and at one point, as it was said you need to have confidence, it also means that the duty of the freemasons you will meet is to listen to you carefully to help you finding the good path for you, none of the obedience cited above is the best or hold the Truth, a GL is just an human organisation.
( This is just a small detail at this point of the path of our friend but "French also called modern rite" and AASR are really different... FR date from ~1745 and "AASR for craft" from 1805 and the second as made a lot of effort to be disctint from the first one)
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FireMist
Member
Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Mar 7, 2008 5:09:44 GMT
Thank you all for your informaiton. I will take all your advice to heart. PS to Maat, You wouldn't believe where I got that name, or who gave it to me . imakegarb, I think you are correct on all the points especially OES parisfred, I don't quite follow what you are meaning, but that is why I am still asking questions. Perhaps that IS your meaning. devoutfreemason, I don't have a clue as to what you are taling about as differences in ritual, but I do understand large and small To all who have mentioned it, Yes, I know Masonry is not a religion. I thank you for brining that up though, because I do see a lot of misinformatin on the www concerning masonry. Even without being one, I can see where people would take that for fact. being a firefighter and paramedic is almost like being a detective...there's always more to the story. I think myself wise enough to know that....perhaps it's just enough to confuse me.
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Post by brandt on Mar 7, 2008 13:04:45 GMT
FireMist, I think that you are off to a good start. Let us know if we can help. Feel free to ask whatever questions you have and I am sure someone hear can provide an answer or at least try to find one. Brandt
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Post by devoutfreemason on Mar 8, 2008 19:17:23 GMT
Firemist welcome abord. You really cannot make a bad choise, all co- masonic groups in the USA are excellent. The main differance may come into play on how much you travel to Europe.
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 8, 2008 21:16:34 GMT
Welcome
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FireMist
Member
Then rally boys, and hasten on.To meet our Chiefs at the Green Dragon.
Posts: 293
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Post by FireMist on Mar 10, 2008 16:46:57 GMT
Firemist welcome abord. You really cannot make a bad choise, all co- masonic groups in the USA are excellent. The main differance may come into play on how much you travel to Europe. I've been to or through about 1/2 the states here, but only to the Falls in Canada once. I've never had a passport. Now, I don't even have a supposed birth cirtificate. What I have, they now tell me is a 'Mother's Certificate.' It was good enough to work for the government of two different states and currently for the city with top security clearances. My thought is, if they are that sticky about my birth certificate, I don't even want to deal with a passport. I suppose I'll not see a difference, though I had wanted to go to Europe when I retire. That's a few years away. To All, Thank you for the warm welcome. I'll post more qustions later and let you know my decisions.
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Post by stepnwolf on Mar 15, 2008 15:32:17 GMT
How can I express my joy in finding this website? To the best of my recollection, I was initiated into a LDH lodge around 1955. Subsequently I moved to NYC and was raised in a L that met at the local Theosophical Society. Later on I found that the working at Marie Deraismes L, in the same city, was closer to AF&AM and joined that L. When visiting in England I attended many meetings in the T located near Nottinghill Gate.
When I moved to the Caribbean, where I lived for many years, I gradually lost contact with stateside Masonry. Now I'm back in the States, retired, and completely confused by the changes in the Order I saw on the web. I wonder if any of the BB can fill me in on the details.
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