|
Post by Marcel on Dec 30, 2007 23:55:15 GMT
I was thinking a bit about the conferring of Degrees within Le Droit Humain. Mainly about the degrees "conferred in name only". Are the LDH giving the degrees in similar intervals as English or Scottish juristictions (that is, are the same degrees given in name only)? Is the system in this regard uniform throughout LDH? Another thing i wonder about is: Do the LDH work the York Rite anywhere? If so, does the manner in wich it´s worked resemble any other juristiction? Come to think of it: Are York degrees ever given in name only (in any juristiction, male or female or Co)? I have an academic interest in degree structures on top of my Masonic interest. I guess that shines through? Happy for any answers that can be given without braking any obligations.
|
|
jmd
Member
fourhares.com
Posts: 1,081
|
Post by jmd on Dec 31, 2007 2:08:26 GMT
By "York" I presume you are referring to the appendant orders that in the USA are generally grouped under the term.
In Australia, LDH confers 4-17th, and 19th-29th as far as I am aware (which is similar to the situation in the masculine-only GLs).
LDH locally also works Mark, Royal Arch (for which Mark is deemed desirable, but is not a requirement), Ark Mariners, and Knights Templar - these are usually 'grouped' as 'York' in the USA.
I am not sure if it works any other appendant rites, as I am not a LDH member.
|
|
|
Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Jan 1, 2008 23:59:28 GMT
Hi Marcel & jmd,
This idea of confering degrees is required due to the need to exhault Brn. into higher degrees. There are in fact, ceremonies for ALL 33 degrees in the Ancient & Accepted Scotish Rite, of which presumably the York comprises some. Both LDH and the Eastern Order work up to 33rd, with 1,2,3, then 18, 30, 31, 32, 33. In between, generally, the others are confered, tho when I attended Paris in 1997 they performed a 4th Initiation Ceremony, as the French seem to prefer this to Mark. We also have Mark, HRA and Knights Templar, which are termed side degrees as they do not have a specific number. In my opinion HRA is the most valuable additional degree any Mason can Join, as it teaches so much. To some extent 17th & 29th are also worked as they are prerequisits to their following degrees. Mainly due to lack of sufficient time, it is difficult to work all 33 degrees, as most masons attend 11 'blue' meetings a year, plus for me there are 4 Mark, 4HRA, 4 Rose Croix (18th), 2 Knights Kadosh (30th), plus odd 32nd-m that's 25 saturday nights a year, without any visiting!
Kind Regards, Hubert
|
|
|
Post by corab on Jan 2, 2008 0:16:15 GMT
Are the LDH giving the degrees in similar intervals as English or Scottish juristictions (that is, are the same degrees given in name only)? Yes, although there is some variation among the various national Federations and Jurisdictions. The British Federation, for example, works the full AASR 1-33, but of those 33 degrees confers 4-18 in the exhaltation to the 18', and 19-30 in the elevation to the 30'. 31-33 are each carried out by individual ceremony, as are, of course the Craft degrees. In the Dutch Federation, 14th is given by individual ceremony as well, and if I'm not much mistaken, so is the 4th. So you see, there is some variation. The basic system is uniform, but of course due to the considerable number of rituals authorised for use in our Order, there is some variation in how the degrees are conferred. Yes we do, though not in every Federation / Jurisdiction. In the British Federation we work AASR 1-33, and the YR degrees of Mark, HRA and KT, and in addition we have recently resuscitated the RoS Degree. That's one for Bro:. Lauderdale! ;D
|
|
|
Post by corab on Jan 2, 2008 0:25:51 GMT
In my opinion HRA is the most valuable additional degree any Mason can Join, as it teaches so much. I'm glad to hear that, because that is the degree I am most keen to attain to -- after having done Mark, of course. But it ain't happening any time soon! My New Year's resolution, oddly enough, is not to take any further degrees until after our next National Convention, which is early in November. With my various involvements I already have 20 meetings a year, and that's quite enough for now.
|
|
|
Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Jan 2, 2008 9:17:09 GMT
Hi Cora,
Hope you had a good Xmas and all the best for 2008.
I joined Mark prior to HRA, but there does not seem to be any real reason to which you join first. HRA is more involved than Mark, which is a lovely degree, I was SD many times as I loved doing the Initiations for the Candidates. One does get more from HRA tho' and it answers a lot more questions, in my mind it is the kernal of all that we seek for.
Best of luck with your masonic advancement in 2008.
Regards Hubert
|
|
|
Post by corab on Jan 2, 2008 12:30:17 GMT
Hi Hubert, Hope you had a good Xmas and all the best for 2008. I did indeed, and wish the same for you. I couldn't judge the reasons for it as I'm not "there" yet, but our General Regulations stipulate that you can go into Mark 9 months after having given your proficiency in the 3rd, and in to HRA 6 months after having gone into Mark. Hmmm -- I wonder if our rituals differ on this point. In Lauderdale, 1992 ed., it is the JD who conducts the Initiation -- is it SD in yours? I'm looking forward to doing my first Initiation as JD -- it's a beautiful part. h.g.w., Cora
|
|
|
Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Jan 2, 2008 23:57:49 GMT
Hi Cora,
There seems to be a slight mix up. Yes in 'Blue' it's the JD that conducts the Candidate, With the SD doing 2nd & 3rd. In Mark, it's the SD that does the donkey work, but it is such a beautifull working that I do it by heart, enthusiasm and great emphasis on the 'Drama' parts. Mind you HRA also has very memorable initiatory dramatic moments.
Here in NZ, there is no stipulation re which you join first, save that each must have a minimum 12 months from 3rd and one another.
Cheers, Hubert
|
|
|
Post by Marcel on Jan 7, 2008 22:14:50 GMT
Thanks everyone! And yes, i refer to certain Degrees as "York" for simplicity. It´s short and most Masons know what i´m aiming for. I got the answers i was looking for. I sure understand why the Degrees are given this way. Conferring 33 Degrees with their full Ceremonies...well, would take time and work indeed (and just imagine Memphis and Misraim Rite, having 99 Degrees ;D ). I have heard from maaaany places now about how wonderful HRA is and i have my guess as of why (from short hints of setting / contents not violating obligations.) For now Craft / Blue is more than enough for me to focus on but a part of me does naturally look forward to the day of HRA. Work that leaves such an impression on so many Masons of so many juristictions must be worth wating for.
|
|
Harmony
Member
The Craft ; 1241 & 1386 & 1706 (Hon) (SC). OSM - Polnoon Castle Conclave. HRA - Rockmount & Camphi
Posts: 337
|
Post by Harmony on Jan 29, 2008 11:35:38 GMT
Hi Cora, There seems to be a slight mix up. Yes in 'Blue' it's the JD that conducts the Candidate, With the SD doing 2nd & 3rd. Another interesting difference between jurisdictions. In my Lodge, the SD does the 1st and the 3rd, with the JD doing the 2nd. The reasoning seems to be that the 2nd is least "involved", and it is a good grounding for the next year doing the more difficult ones. Being in Scotland, we do the Mark in the Lodge as well, but all offices are taken by PM's for this.
|
|
|
Post by penfold on Jan 31, 2008 17:33:14 GMT
Interesting stuff, under UGLE the JD conducts the candidate in the 1st, and the SD does the job in the 2nd and 3rd.
Question for LDH masons - JMD mentioned that Mark was recommended but not required, is that the case across all LDH jurisdictions?
|
|
imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
|
Post by imakegarb on Jan 31, 2008 17:52:57 GMT
I'm not in LDH but I'll answer anyway For us in the Honorable Order of American Co-Masonry, American Federation of Human Rights, Mark is the next step after the Third. I don't fully understand the order. Only that we do go to the 33rd SR but take a sort of turn into some of the YR degrees. For me, Mark is next. I'm expected to apply next month, with an eye toward this degree, for me, in November.
|
|
|
Post by corab on Feb 1, 2008 13:06:19 GMT
Question for LDH masons - JMD mentioned that Mark was recommended but not required, is that the case across all LDH jurisdictions? No, it's not. In the British Federation Mark is a requirement for HRA -- off the top of my head there's a minimum statutory period of 6 months between Mark and HRA. S&F, Cora
|
|
|
Post by penfold on Feb 1, 2008 16:09:40 GMT
Thank you! Its the differences that make it interesting....
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Feb 1, 2008 17:12:51 GMT
Thank you! Its the differences that make it interesting.... So true. Light has many rays
|
|
|
Post by corab on Feb 3, 2008 13:06:29 GMT
Thank you! Its the differences that make it interesting.... Absolutely. In the Temple of Humanity, which as we know is composed of living stones, each of which is wrought, polished and ornamented by the true Master Builder, I like to think of those differences as the mortar that keeps it all in place.
|
|
|
Post by corab on Feb 3, 2008 13:11:34 GMT
Thank you! Its the differences that make it interesting.... So true. Light has many rays True, Bro:. Leo. There is even invisible light; light not visible to our ordinary senses, but which can be measured with scientific equipment. Which only goes to show that the fact that we cannot see light in something does not mean it is not there. It merely means our senses are too limited to detect it. I thank you -- you've just given me another piece to a puzzle I'm trying to solve.
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Feb 3, 2008 13:57:00 GMT
Thank you Bro. Cora for that thought provoking post: Light is indeed everywhere, nothing, after all, exists without its presences in some shape or other; one merely has to be open enough to be able to embrace and appreciate its power in all its "guises."
Sadly, sometimes we ourselves are the worst offenders in that we place unnecessary obstacles in its way and therefore paradoxically become unintentional defenders of Darkness; through our own veils of ignorance.
|
|
|
Post by corab on Feb 3, 2008 15:24:43 GMT
Sadly, sometimes we ourselves are the worst offenders in that we place unnecessary obstacles in its way and therefore paradoxically become unintentional defenders of Darkness; through our own veils of ignorance. Too right again, Bro:. Leo -- wise words. They connect well with the imagery of the Temple of Humanity, which is, as the ritual tells us, "not erected in space and time, and the distinctions which we, in our mortal bodies and possessed of our limited senses, recognise, have no place in real Freemasonry." The differences are the mortar that keeps this Temple together. His Light shineth even in our darkness -- even if we ourselves create that darkness.
|
|
|
Post by maat on Feb 4, 2008 4:19:05 GMT
His Light shineth even in our darkness -- even if we ourselves create that darkness. Which is true - Light in space is darkness. We only see light when it is reflected, does that mean we can only see God when we reflect Him? I don't think that we create darkness, more a case of just not reflecting enough light to see? We allow darkness? Maat
|
|