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Post by atarnaris on Nov 25, 2004 9:22:05 GMT
Brethren All,
Someone said once: " If the Initiate does not understand the Symbolism presented to him the first time round, he will never do" (not the exact phrase but along the lines of it;I think it was Albert Pike). Please comment on this...
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 25, 2004 9:42:22 GMT
Can't agree with you where Andrew. How much do we understand ab initio in life in general? I couldn't get my had round some of the concepts of Electronics such as Kirchoff's Laws when I was a teenager, now I work in that industry.
Some Initiates may be well read and researched and comprehend the Symbolism straight away. Others may look though a glass darkly and take longer and much study to understand and some, even after many years in The Craft, never ever do and see only the Mundane aspects of such items such as the colours of regalia, the designs thereof etc.
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bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Nov 25, 2004 10:05:39 GMT
I'm with Taylorsman on this one. It is possible for someone to really not grasp something the first time it is explained to them. I had a physics teacher in my first 2 years of high school that made such heavyweather of his explanation that I really didn't get it. A change in teacher led to greater understanding and I started to enjoy physics, and make good progress in the subject. I suppose you could argue that it was actually my mind maturing and my ability to understand more complex areas that made the difference, rather than the change in teacher, but thats a different discussion....
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Post by Jumile on Nov 25, 2004 10:18:29 GMT
While I think I understand what the author was getting at in the provided quote, I couldn't disagree more. As Taylorsman said - especially in the field of study (2 similar stumbling blocks spring to my mind) - one oftens doesn't intuitively "get" the meaning the first time around, but often when its presented from a slightly different angle a lightbulb switches on and all is illuminated.
Perhaps the author had such an intimate knowledge of the Old Testament prior to Initiation that he couldn't possibly see how someone unfamiliar with it could "catch up" after the fact. With no disrespect to whomever it was, I suspect that indicates his own lack of understanding of man.
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Post by offramp on Nov 25, 2004 10:27:47 GMT
If it was Pike then I think he has really hit the nail on the head. The symbolism is pretty straightforward and a lot of it is spelled out anyway. If you can't grasp it right away you may be in the wrong line of fraternity.
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 25, 2004 11:37:44 GMT
As you know I am no great fan of Pike, I think he has probably put more people off of Freemasonry than he has attracted and I never recommend his works to anyone who asks me about The Craft.
I am very deeply into Freemasonry and have been in the Brotherhood for 16 years now, but I am still learning and picking up references and explanations of the Symbolism and "Hidden Mysteries".
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Post by Trinityman on Nov 26, 2004 17:23:34 GMT
Someone said once: " If the Initiate does not understand the Symbolism presented to him the first time round, he will never do" (not the exact phrase but along the lines of it;I think it was Albert Pike).quote]I think 'someone' missed the point. Freemasonry provides us with a lifetime of discovery - and thats just Craft masonry! I'm learning new stuff all the time. To be fair to Pike, he is the most misquoted and abused masonic author ever to have put pen to paper. That may be because no-one really seems to know what he's on about and that may be the case with this snippet as well.
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
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Post by staffs on Nov 26, 2004 18:56:09 GMT
What a load of crap !
How can you begin to underastand it first time round.
Off ramp sent me the first DTB and i have found this a great help in learning .
For those masons who want this piece of ritual .e mail me or pm and i will send it to them
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Post by whistler on Nov 26, 2004 21:27:41 GMT
Brethren All, Someone said once: " If the Initiate does not understand the Symbolism presented to him the first time round, he will never do" (not the exact phrase but along the lines of it;I think it was Albert Pike). Please comment on this... I find this a tricky one before I pick on Albert Pike, unlike Taylorman I find immense interest and excitement when I study his works, I would like to be sure it came Form Albert Pike, and if it did I would like to look at more that that line.
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Post by Jumile on Nov 26, 2004 22:59:06 GMT
I don't think a single duff quote makes the speaker a kook. I simply think Pike (if it was him) was wrong on that one statement. Unless it was taken out of context, then all the debating in the world won't set it right.
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Nov 27, 2004 2:21:22 GMT
Pike generally has a lot of wisdom regarding the Craft.
Maybee he was hinting at a higher understanding of what one was getting into when going thru' the Initiation. At the point of having one's eyes opened, we would "know" if the carft was for us or not. It's an inner feeling that we are home or where we should be.
Certainly there is much to "see" later on in our masonic journey, and in my many offices, placed in different positions within the Lodge, I perceived masonry from a different angle.
Each time a new candidate joins I see a different aspect of the whole ceremony, I listen to the words spoken and renew my obligation and responsibilities, just as every time I make the sign I am aware of the Charkra associated with it.
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Post by atarnaris on Nov 28, 2004 13:18:42 GMT
I find this a tricky one before I pick on Albert Pike, unlike Taylorman I find immense interest and excitement when I study his works, I would like to be sure it came Form Albert Pike, and if it did I would like to look at more that that line. You are correct there Whistler. Pike's work has been misunderstood in the past because of one-liners. I will try to find the full quote then...
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