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Post by Yoki on Dec 12, 2004 2:20:21 GMT
The nature of a Higher Being has been discussed since the time caveman and cavewomen looked up at the sky and attributed such things as thunder to the Gods. Over the centuries worship has taken many forms and today the array is mind boggling, which shows the versatility of human interpretation. But what I don't understand is why we can’t recognise that in all probabilities what and whom we worship is one and the same thing. For eon’s human kind has worshiped a parent God or Goddess who they pray to in time of need (there are no atheists in a foxhole). God is God the father and one aspect of the Goddess is the mother. I believe this is appropriate for a developing and evolving peoples but I also think that one day we will arrive at the point when we recognise our own divinity and the fact that we are here to do it for our self’s. If you will we are our own Higher Being. I'm with Leonardo on this one my interpretation leans towards a inner light that is part of a greater whole and after that I get lost as I can not imagine losing my individuality (which supposedly happens when one becomes enlightened). In my current literary interest the nature of genius is discussed with the author stating that it is much more prevalent than we think, the eureka moment which is available to genius is available to us all. Using the example of a poet the process is as follows .A line of verse is thought about and thought about, turned over and over ,combinations are tried but nothing is quite right. At the point of surrender which can be viewed as giving up the answer comes seemly from no were. The thought processes are necessary it sows the way till the connection is made. How can this be God or a higher principle at work simple the solution to the problem filters down from the universal mind and this sequence can be blocked by ego interference. I believe that prophets and spiritual leaders are also able to tape the collective consciousness , here also we have seen time and time again egos inflated and downfalls occurring when personality takes over. Why do I like what this author has to say, I recognise this principle from personal experience which makes me think yes there could be something to this. Offcourse this is just one maybe among many maybes that may or may not be.
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Post by whistler on Dec 12, 2004 2:32:56 GMT
A good Post Yoki -- I have problems with A god of any type. I am firmly convinced that I am God and So are you. In my Human mind my god and I are a team working together for my perfection - the Eureka moment is one of quite confidence "that everything is perfect"
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
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Post by staffs on Dec 12, 2004 7:02:58 GMT
so whistler YOU are the GAOTU as well .
Is this the way it is as we are all architects of our own lives ??
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Post by whistler on Dec 12, 2004 7:20:53 GMT
so whistler YOU are the GAOTU as well . Is this the way it is as we are all architects of our own lives ?? Staffs Think of how it must be. Creator Creates everything What does the Creator Create with? You and I are All things and everything, and in many life times some time we will have to confront all of our aspects How we handle them will determine our progress.. Look at Hindu Within the hindu trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, Brahma is the creator, Vishnu the preserver and Shiva the destroyer. Nevertheless, Brahma grew in a lotus out of the navel of the sleeping Vishnu. The daily alternation of light and dark is attributed to the activity of Brahma. Brahma's mind born sons are the seers Marici, Atri, Angiras, Pulastya, Pulaha, Kratuj, Pracetas, Vashishta, Bhrgu and Narada. From Brahma's body came his nine sons Daksa, Dharma, Kama, Anger, Greed, Delusion (Maya), Lust, Joy, Death and Bharata and one daughter called Angaja. In order to create the world and produce the human race, Brahma made a goddess out of himself. One half was woman and the other half was man. Brahma called the woman Gayatri, but she also became known by many other names such as Saraswati. - This inevitable truth is told in the legends of many different people
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Post by whistler on Dec 12, 2004 7:21:34 GMT
so whistler YOU are the GAOTU as well . Is this the way it is as we are all architects of our own lives ?? And so are YOU Staffs
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Michael
Member
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Posts: 326
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Post by Michael on Dec 12, 2004 12:41:51 GMT
Great post Yoki,
I wish I could be as eloquent.
I think the God within is far more likely, as I have always had trouble with a religion that require someone to intercede on my behalf such a padre/vicar etc...
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 12, 2004 13:19:14 GMT
Michael, there is a definition of Prayer as being "The raising up of the Heart and Mind to God".
This is something we can ALL do for ourselves. A Priest, Vicar, Minister etc is not necessary although some people find such a person a help and focus for their prayers. Others find them to be a block , an unwanted diversion. It's up to the Individual.
Again the same with the prayers used. I personally like the formal type of prayer as used in the 1662 Book of Common Prayer and if praying myself do couch it in such language e.g. "Oh God our Heavenly Father, look down upon this thy servant Stephen............." Others may prefer the ordinary day to day language of 2004, use whatever you feel most comfortable with.
There is an old verse, "One is closer to God in a Garden than anywhere else on Earth" so going to Church, if it does nothing for you, or mouthing well known prayers if these are meaningless, is then a waste of time and effort.
If one feels the need for Prayer, do so in one's own way
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Post by middlepillar on Dec 12, 2004 21:26:21 GMT
The nature of a Higher Being has been discussed since the time caveman and cavewomen looked up at the sky and attributed such things as thunder to the Gods. Over the centuries worship has taken many forms and today the array is mind boggling, which shows the versatility of human interpretation. But what I don't understand is why we can’t recognise that in all probabilities what and whom we worship is one and the same thing. For eon’s human kind has worshiped a parent God or Goddess who they pray to in time of need (there are no atheists in a foxhole). God is God the father and one aspect of the Goddess is the mother. I believe this is appropriate for a developing and evolving peoples but I also think that one day we will arrive at the point when we recognise our own divinity and the fact that we are here to do it for our self’s. If you will we are our own Higher Being. quote] Yoki Firstly, Great Post although I think it should of been posted on the esoteric thread, because you could of started something here! Maybe you have translated the real teaching of Freemasonry? This basic thought (We are indeed all God) is something that is really researched/examined/explained in the more 'Esoteric' Degrees. If anyone searches on the internet for 'martinism' they may be interested in what they find. Although there is a lot of duff stuff in the mix as well, a lot of you have asked questions about certain things, so go on search and maybe discover!?
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Post by leonardo on Dec 12, 2004 22:01:20 GMT
Yoki
I should have posted my reply in the "What made you smile today?" topic as I always smile greatly when I come across another being who shares similar thoughts and understandings to myself. Thank you so much for posting this topic.
Reading some of the responses so far one can see the effect it's having. You have brought some much needed additional light to the forum.
May I take this opportunity to recommend a book called "The Journey" by Canadian author Leslie Fieger. I read it number of years ago, 1999, in fact, and it helped greatly change my views on many things. One being about who and what we are and our relation to the Supreme. The original Consciousness, if you prefer.
It contains some rather interesting "insights" concerning the "inner" self. "As within, so with-out" the ultimate conclusion is that there is no inner self, we are all simply part of the same universal consciousness. It is a thoroughly fascinating read, but unfortunately far beyond the comprehension of some, though I imagine it would be appreciated by all from this forum.
Unfortunately I do not have the book immediately to hand in order to quote some passages from it, but I shall endeavour to dig it out one of the days.
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Dec 14, 2004 4:51:20 GMT
The great thing about al our threads on this site is that they are serendipituously coming to the same conclusion. That we ALL are in fact this being refered to as TGAOTU. The Craft is simply a means by which those who wish to discover more are guided and directed in valuable paths for that discovery.
For gardeners it greatly assists to have a fork and spade. You can cultivate using your bare hands, but with the above implements far better results are achived. Using this analogy, the Tarot for example, is a useful tool to gain spiritual insight. Likewise Kabbalism, etc, etc.
It naturally stands to reason therefore that ALL "tools" available should be employed, thus the feminine is of equal importance as the masculine!
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Agent J
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On a Mission from God...
Posts: 127
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Post by Agent J on Dec 14, 2004 7:29:39 GMT
I'll be really careful here, as I have no wish to offend, but it strikes me that much of what has been said on this thread does indeed approach the Truth. The need for a delicate handling of this topic lies in the historical context of the ritual, and the beliefs and opinions of those who formed it. My understanding is that fear of the counter reformation which influenced the political ideas of post Civil War England and Scotland encouraged religious ideas that required no human intermediary between the individual and God. And as a result of that, the Roman Church was never likely to endorse an organisation that practiced religious toleration and promoted a direct line of conversation with God, without approaching the Deity through another human (supposedly) qualified for the job. Again, my apologies if this is bordering on the offensive, it is not my intention.
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 14, 2004 7:35:23 GMT
Agent J, that would accord with my views on this matter. The Individualist Believer has always been considered worse by Churches than the outright Atheist as the former makes them redundant and thus neutralises their power.
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Dec 14, 2004 7:38:07 GMT
Ajent J: Read Talisman by Hancock & Bauval. What the RC church did in the past to quell those who beleived in themselves is despicable. They don't have such power in todays' enlightened world, but the Islamists fundamentalists shure aregiving it a go!
I would suggest there is also a certain faction of society that tries the same discrimination against women. If you fear it suppress it! attitude?
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Agent J
Member
On a Mission from God...
Posts: 127
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Post by Agent J on Dec 14, 2004 7:40:58 GMT
absolutely...coincidentally, nearly every day I walk through Bunhill Fields, a Nonconformist burial ground just outside the City of London. The reason why it is outside the boundary of the City is that Nonconformists from the early 1700's onwards were denied a Christian burial. Some of those buried there are well known - William Blake, John Bunyan, Daniel Defoe, Jonathan Swift...
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Post by leonardo on Dec 14, 2004 9:17:27 GMT
Ajent J: Read Talisman by Hanthingy & Bauval. What the RC church did in the past to quell those who beleived in themselves is despicable. They don't have such power in todays' enlightened world, but the Islamists fundamentalists shure aregiving it a go! Hubert, I have also read this book. In fact, I have reviewed it elsewhere. I found it to be well written and thoroughly well researched. It certainly holds no punches when it talks about the Catholic Church of yesteryear and there's little doubt in my mind as to its authenticity in this regard. A good book in my opinion, and one which I have no hesitation in recommending.
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 14, 2004 10:08:00 GMT
I'll have to buy that book Leo.
My take on this is as follows. I am a High Anglican, my love for Ritual and Symbolism is not confined to Freemasonry but interlards most of my Life, I also enjoy Secular Rituals such as "Trooping the Colour" and "The State Opening of Parliament" even if I don't have a lot of time for the fools on both sides who occupy its benches.
In matters of Religion I look to a Priest primarily as a Minister, that is that he helps and assists his Congregation and guides them . To pray to God however the Individual can do so for themselves, in his or her own way, a Priest, Vicar, Minister, Pastor is NOT necessary. Likewise there is no need to pray to Saints etc to "intercede" to God, personally I find that concept blasphemous, but others may disagree as is their choice. To me those declared and held to be "Saints" should be remembered as exemplars of the Christian Way of Life , especially those who suffered Martyrdom for their beliefs or rendered great service to their fellow humans, but certainly NOT given the Honours due to God alone.
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Post by leonardo on Dec 14, 2004 22:37:24 GMT
I'll have to buy that book Leo. Yes Steve, I think you would enjoy it. It will take some time to get through it but in my opinion well worth the effort. Its primary focus is Freemasonry during the 1800s and 1900s, but it covers such a wide range of interests; it will take you from Paris to southern France, on to Egypt and the United States of America. From this perspectives it could never possibly be considered dull or boring. There is a fairly extensive amount of work dedicated to the Cathars and the possibility of a connection with the Knights Templer. I got the impression that the link, although perhaps somewhat tenuous, is nevertheless a genuine possibility. However, I'm certainly no expert on the subject and wouldn't dream of suggesting that it is totally accurate but nonetheless I would advise you, or anybody else who has an interest, to get the book. I do not believe it is "Freemasonry bashing" it may well be, but this is not how I saw it from my limited perspectives on these things. I found the book to be thoroughly fascinating, highly enjoyable and incredibly difficult to put down.
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Post by offramp on Dec 15, 2004 2:28:11 GMT
...I am firmly convinced that I am God ... Happy Birthday!
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Post by Yoki on Dec 15, 2004 5:57:54 GMT
On this esoteric segment of the forum is a topic titled observer article beyond belief have a look at it and your find a link to a cult data base .I was fascinated and appalled by the array of groups covered and will go back to read more. How does this tie in with what's being discussed here, both are about looking to an other for answers and both deal with the issue of power and control. Cults naturally practice the extremes of this but it is also present within organised religions and takes place within marriages, relationships and even the workplace. Why is one person so willing to be the victim while an other seeks power? Naturally there are psychological reasons but this process can only be given meaning in the name of spiritual evolution, if this is not the case then we live within the realms of chaos. Noting that the more extreme the circumstances the more severe the result, the effect on the victim is a lose of self, they become a non-person and I would argue that the perpetrator loses connection with their inner being. Its such a pity that it takes pain for growth to occur but just that happens when our victim starts to stand up for them self's and claw back their self esteem. Some realise that their circumstances are toxic and leave starting the process of return and some never find their way out. The people that go through this experience and come out the other side are forever changed, they understand self worth and how to stand alone, they develop compassion and are well on their way spiritually.
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