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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Jan 5, 2005 2:32:47 GMT
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Jan 5, 2005 2:49:34 GMT
Russell, Your hypothesis re Hand over back could therefore be taken two ways:
1. If the hand is turned inwards, as tho' supporting a Bro. the palm chakra energy would be channeled into the recipient, forming as it were a figure 8 (infinity) flow - as both do this to one another.
2. Following the traditional method with hand outstretched vertically (observing squares & perpendiculars) the chakra energy is warding off the attacks of the insiduous.
Your suggestion certainly merrits investigation, tho' we have never done it different to the traditional method.
If ever i'm in Brisbane I'd sure like to have a beer and chat on our interests,
Cheers, Hubert
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Post by hollandr on Jan 5, 2005 6:16:14 GMT
Hubert
It is worth some experimenting with hand direction but my default assumption is that we have the direction correct. The question is why and what does it achieve?
As to figure 8s. When two people stand opposite each other (given some preconditions) it is common for figure 8 energy flows to occur.
So - out the right breast, cross over in front and in the right breast of the person opposite - round the back in behind the left breast - out the left breast and cross over and in the first person's left breast and around the back and out through the right breast etc.
And reverse flows too.
This can be visualised and experienced. Find a partner and have a go.
If the two people have a close relationship they do not have to cross the flows as their relationship entity will do ir for them.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 5, 2005 9:26:58 GMT
Russell and Hubert. Most interesting. I seriously doubt if such ideas would even impinge on the consciousness of the average UGLE Craft Freemason.
Bruce, if your Lodge has the custom of placing the hand flat on the back and they like that, then maintain that practice. You know my view about homogenised "One size fits all" Ritual with no local variations.
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Post by Late Knight Chemist on Jan 5, 2005 14:14:00 GMT
Steve, I have only ever seen the Emulation practice with the outstretched hand but it may not always have been done that way. It seems that change must have come about at the beginning of the twentieth century, or thereabouts.
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 5, 2005 23:38:59 GMT
Possibly so, but it's the same in Taylors and other Rituals I have seen.
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Post by Late Knight Chemist on Jan 6, 2005 0:05:08 GMT
Thanks, Steve. I suspect that our rituals have changed and evolved over the years. There is nothing wrong with this except that we may have lost sight of the origins of our rituals.
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Post by hollandr on Jan 7, 2005 2:03:57 GMT
Folks
I have followed my own advice and tested hand over back. And with the hand faced away from the back I received the person's cosmic inflow to the back of the right breast. It went straight into my heart. It was quite tangible and quite different from the personal comfort feeling of turning the hand towards the back.
This experiment appears to confirm my hypothesis that the FPOF is a technical process intended to change the energies of the brethren.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by Late Knight Chemist on Jan 7, 2005 9:05:06 GMT
Russell,
Do not get carried away.
When a long lost son returns home his dad may well embrace him and the left hand will be placed on the other's back to draw or pull the two parties together to complete and seal an act of reunion. Without this final point of contact the union is not complete and the two parties can drift apart. The former will give a sure sense of well-being (and , in your parlance, presumably appropriate cosmic flows must follow).
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Jan 8, 2005 4:08:10 GMT
I still think the 5th point, hand outstretched, is more correct. The whole purpose of all our rituals is as Initiatory rites.
Dwell on the wording associated with that final movement and it is clear that we assert our intention to protect a Bros. character. We are in fact then symbolically warding off attacks.
Esoterically this is done with the palm chakra, forming an etheric egg, if you will, arround the recipient. Add to this the reception of cosmic inflow as Russell mentions and it seems to strengthen the view that many forces are at work. Bear in mind it is the giver of the sign that gets the inflow initially thus the more prepared to distinguish its appropriateness. In fact there are so many issues this opens up for me I need ponder on it quite a while.
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Post by hollandr on Jan 9, 2005 2:21:56 GMT
Hubert
I am encouraged by the discussion. If we are to renew Masonry we must be able to analyse the inner effects of the ritual actions - initially to produce a "best practice" old ritual and later to produce a new form from the seeds of the old.
But how to proceed?
I suspect that we need a number of experimental groups based around lodges that do effective inner work.
Then once that is started we may need some sort of officer interchange scheme between the experimental groups to share learnings and keep us in close communion.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 11, 2005 9:42:18 GMT
Bruce when I left my Father yesterday I simply shook his hand and when I saw him on Friday the poor old fellow was not at all well and would not have benefitted from a bear hug from 18 stone me, not that I would greet him in that manner even if he was well. I would as I say simply shake his hand, I don't do "touchy feely"
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Post by roberthlamar on Jan 11, 2005 10:22:39 GMT
1 - So why are there five points?
R : Look to the Flaming Star look to yourself and you will find the answer.
2 - Why are they of fellowship?
R : Cause they belong to the companion or Fellow Craft Degree, there is more to it as well.
3 - The process is about communicating secrets.
R : No. The five points of fellowship is for one to be recognized. The Secrets and mysteries are given in another way.
4 - Where did the 5 come from and where does fellowship fit in?
R : They precede the Old Charges and we have the first written Record of the 5 points of fellowship in the manuscript of Kewan 1714-1720.
5 - It could equally have been points of faith or truth.
R : No, its specific point.
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Post by Late Knight Chemist on Jan 11, 2005 11:24:39 GMT
Steve, I'll be honest with you and confide that I never did the touchy feely thing with my father either but because we do/did not do it others do.
When Masters in your lodges demonstrate and explain the FPOF how often is the SD deacon or some other past master required to position the candidates outstretched hand?
I do not disagree with the outstretched hand but merely pointing out that it may be a fairly recent invention. Rationally the bond of fellowship must be greater with a hug than when the chests are merely brought into apposition, surely?
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 11, 2005 11:54:36 GMT
Indeed so. The SD moves out when the WM starts the F P of F and stays in place near the WM's back to adjust the Candidate's Hand as required. Some Candidates get the idea quickly and put their hand palm up anyway.
Yes, a hug is more intimate but we don't tend to do this between grown men in UK culture, only kids do so to their fathers, and adult men to women if they are that intimate or if an adult man is greeting his Mum or Sister etc, but then of course it is not (usually) then with a sexual overtone. I just can't see me hugging another man, no matter how close a friend he was.
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Post by Late Knight Chemist on Jan 12, 2005 18:38:32 GMT
I have checked my source for the hand to back. It 's not as old as I thought it was having been published in 1945.
Masonic Ritual: A Commentary on the Freemasonic Ritual by Cartwright now out of print.
It seems that the outstretched may have been a relatively modern Emulation innovation or breaking of a "landmark".
Steve, which is the older Emulation or Taylors? Who copied from whom?
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
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Post by staffs on Jan 12, 2005 19:44:24 GMT
Bruce when I left my Father yesterday I simply shook his hand and when I saw him on Friday the poor old fellow was not at all well and would not have benefitted from a bear hug from 18 stone me, not that I would greet him in that manner even if he was well. I would as I say simply shake his hand, I don't do "touchy feely" Steve,i used to shake my dads hand as a greeting but for the last 10 years when meeting him i give him a big hug and a kiss on the cheek. I used to think i would never do this or that he would not reciprocate my feeling of emotion but it was like he always wanted to hug and just needed the encouragement. It make a very strong emotional feeling and maybe like Russell states you van Feel the emotion of such a greeting and goodbye. I make sure i hug my boys regularly, but as they get older they shy away as i used to with my dad
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Post by Late Knight Chemist on Jan 12, 2005 20:19:40 GMT
Lee and Steve,
Perhaps it is Worcestershire thing or Mark thing but a few Brethren here do greet one another with a hug - not too many I admit.
In my mother lodge we have a number of father/son pairings. Many of us call one of the fathers "Dad" and he is often greeted as a dad.
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Post by leonardo on Jan 12, 2005 20:19:48 GMT
I make sure i hug my boys regularly, but as they get older they shy away as i used to with my dad My kids always hug me every morning and before they head off to bed. They're young: eldest is just 10. I have kids from an earlier relationship. My eldest is 28! He's a hugger too!
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staffs
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Staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 12, 2005 20:24:36 GMT
But what i am trying to say is that when you greet in this way you feel the energy transmitted through you and get a feel of that persons emotions be they good or bad.
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