staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Jan 21, 2005 23:05:34 GMT
Chris.dont thank me .Its you who have made this forum .I have just provided the stage for which you can perform .
|
|
|
Post by middlepillar on Jan 21, 2005 23:10:56 GMT
Chris.dont thank me .Its you who have made this forum .I have just provided the stage for which you can perform . You, as in all of us ;D
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Jan 21, 2005 23:32:09 GMT
Yes Chrisi meant ALL of the forumites when i made that statement.
|
|
|
Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Jan 22, 2005 8:16:32 GMT
A few thoughts on the latest postings here:
Alchemists in their day, and now, were/are the Magicians of their time. They explored realms foreign to the average individual. that is how the SCIENCE of metalurgy came about to name one.
Middlepillar: I tend to agree regarding usage of our faculties - If one examines the hyperbolic curve ceated by a diagram of ALL known wavelengths, and then plot on it the limit of MAN's actual perception, only about 1/9th is evident. Hearing for example is narrower than a dogs! (god's is greater). We KNOW these wavelenghts exist, we just don't perceive them. -COULD IT BE THAT ESP IS PART OF THAT UNOBSERVED (by many) 8/9THS? That begs the question - "what else is out there that we COULD see if given the correct TOOLS?"
Bevan: you promote some very sound ideas : What if we, as humans, work on multi-dimensional levels, not just physically, but etherically,astrally, lower mental, higher mentally? Could our dreams, some suggest Astral travel, be a less obvious/aware state.
For me, I "FEEL" more is happening at our ceremonies than I am actually always fully aware. It is sometimes difficult to put my finger on it, but like a lot of other posters I will have to await a greater awakening.
This is why I think so much caution has to be taken when takeing the pathways we have chosen. A great EASTERN teaching is that the TEACHER is responsible for those he instructs, as to their future wellbeing in following his dsirection.
This thread has along way to go yet!
|
|
|
Post by a on Jan 22, 2005 8:54:39 GMT
Hubert
Not just this thread. But also its wider implications for society.
Consider the type of people who actually join esoteric societies. Now consider those who esteric societies want to join them. And also consider all of those in the world who are on similar but different paths, but which lead to the same place, though using different tools. And consider all of the people who are lost, or starting a path on their own though they may not realise this is happening, etc. There appears to me to be a growing spiritual awakening unfolding aorund us, which is gathering pace as society changes and the old rules break down (eg do the "right thing" and you will have a job for life), so the potential energy out there is gathering pace. I do not think that it would take that much for forums/threads like this one to:-
1. Help so many individuals who are searching - help them realise thatthey are not alone, not going mad etc. 2. Help knit this energy together, so that it is more focused and less random. And through this make a real difference to our world in terms of individuals abilities to combat their fears, insecurities etc. Those Ruffians get everywhere. 3. Strengthen the position of existing esoteric societies, strength through diversity. 4. Calm the fears and insecurities of those who are aware but are scared (often through the effects of subsequent denials of all this stuff). Which sort of circles back to point 1.
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Jan 22, 2005 8:58:52 GMT
Stewart,i mentioned circle in one of my posts on this thread. "The circle of Life maybe " ?
|
|
|
Post by a on Jan 22, 2005 9:15:14 GMT
Yes the Circle of Life. In fact there are many many circles of life, including:-
1. The circle that takes us from where we come from, through our life, and back to where we started (hopefully evolving and learning a bit on the way) - this is illustrated well in the martial arts, where you start witha white belt, then reach black, and then in time your black belt wears away back to white again. Full circle, but more evolved.
2. Within your home town, you have many circles operating. Consider your life and that of someone who lives down the street. They work, shop, go out, etc, just as you do, and lead a completely different life, within the same space of the town, but your circles of life may only occassionally interact. Both valuable circles where much can be learnt, but also hidden within the same space. Not dissimilar to radio waves passing through air to a radio. The radio has access to them all, they exist, but you only hear one when you tune into it (or when you bump into that person).
3. More esoterically we are all on a path, but our evolution has, in the West anyway, and increasingly in the rest of the world, taken us on a very technological, materialistic, physical path, which unfortunately has made us stumble. The trouble is that the consequent abuses of our resources that this has entailed now means that Mother nature is completing a circle for us, and taking us back to an earlier time so that we can have another go at getting the balance right. It is a pity that as a species we have not been able to find the inner courage and wisdom to learn and complete the circle ourselves. If we could achieve it we would evolve, (leaving more sustainable resources for those who didn't want to evolve which strengthens their position), as the circle completes. But as we have not been able to Mother Nature is simply doing it for us and giving us another chance, but from an earlier less physical/technological position. One way or another the cirlce will complete.
4. With thought I am sure that you will be able to think of other circles of life that are part of our very fabric of existance.
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Jan 23, 2005 15:33:34 GMT
And i believe that freemasonry itself is a circle of life and generations like a family.
We have the older members who encourage and teach the younger /newer members and we have the initiates who are born into freemasonry and then grow and bring along their offspring i the form of new initaites and as the elder generation die their place is taken by the next down.
In fact Freemasonry is quite clever in the fact that it is self generative and by keeping this cycle alive and working we can ensure that the circlle of freemasonry continues.
Stewart ,you are always harping on that freemasonry is in difficult times and that a split is inevitable and i know your contacts are in the craft but from my limited viewpoint i see the exact opposite and believe freemasonry achieves its own balance of strength that is far from weak from my viewing position.
Stewart it is great that you read books and talk to people but only when you get in the craft and are in the circle of freemasonry itself and attending meetings and experience the enthsiasm and vibrancy cwill you realise that you are probably wrong with your assumptions.
I believe that this circle is constantly revolving like a wheel and there is plenty of tread left on the tyres .
|
|
|
Post by a on Jan 23, 2005 15:41:59 GMT
Stewart ,you are always harping on that freemasonry is in difficult times YesNo, possible, being discussed, welcomed by some, but inevitable no. As you know I dearly hope that the fracturing ceases.I have always said that i could be wrong.
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Jan 23, 2005 15:50:57 GMT
And when a crack or break in a bone heals Stewart it heals much stronger than it was before
|
|
|
Post by a on Jan 23, 2005 16:17:30 GMT
Internal work is never easy. But I would imagine that all paths, whether wet or dry ultimately require it. So so easy to put it off though and rest on the comfort of the known, as opposed to taking the next step.
Staffs
I do hope, with all my heart, that the "bones" of Freemasonry do heal stronger than they have ever been. But that will I think take a lot of internal work by a lot of Freemasons.
Mind you our persectives are different. You are about to take a major step in one Fraternity. I look at all of the Fraternities, for they are all important.
Comparing it to a sport, eg Football, I want to see the whole sport strengthen and the teams work together better as they play on the field on life. You are understandably a great supporter of your specific team that you invest heavily in.
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Jan 23, 2005 16:55:12 GMT
Lee I have had the privilege of meeting and talking to you both and I feel that, taking his various postings and discussions into account, Stewart will be far better to join Co-Masonry such as LDH.
He will gain much more from that as from the very start it is more Spiritual and Philosophical than UGLE Craft Freemasonry from what I understand of the postings by Whistler, Yoki, Hubert, JMD etc. Although unlike myself Stewart likes a challenge I honestly feel he would soon be very frustrated by UGLE at Craft level and having to wait quite a few years before being able to join the Higher Degrees, especially SRIA which could well appeal to him.
It's up to Stewart of course but I feel that being knocked back by a Berkshire UGLE Lodge last year was a blessing in disguise for him and, speaking from experience just about the worst thing for him to do would be to join a Craft Lodge working Emulation and Meeting at Sindlesham!
|
|
|
Post by a on Jan 23, 2005 18:54:38 GMT
Taylorsman
You do make me laugh at times, thank you.
Yes I do like challenges. But I have no intention of being anywhere that I am not wanted. Fortunately I have no driving need to join anything, after all I already get so much out of Freemasonry and am moving about as quick as I can just now in any case. But I will join somewhere sometime, when the time is right.
|
|
giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
|
Post by giovanni on Apr 19, 2005 9:07:07 GMT
As far as I know, the distinction between Dry and Wet regards the way man approaches the Divine.
A wet path is founded more on emotions (water is, in psychoanalysis, the conscience). Mysticism is dry, the mystic willing to escaping from himself in order to be in unity with God immediately and directly; he lounges for ecstasy which is, literally, “going out of oneself” (from the Greek “existànai”).
Freemasonry is instead a dry path. Wet, thus solar, the heart being the centre of the man and the seat of “intellect”, which must not be confused with mind. Intellect is the ability to catch the nexuses existing among the various aspects of the reality and to connect them with the superior entity.
Dante and the medieval poets so called “Fedeli d’Amore” spoke about the “intelletto d’amore”, intellect of love, to better depict this faculty. Which is not given "gratis", but it’s rather the fruit of a severe discipline.
A reference to this concept I found in the order position of the 2nd degree.
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Apr 20, 2005 19:25:50 GMT
I think the distinctions of wet and dry are arbitrary, inconsistent and illogical. True mysticism is anything but dry, but so much of practical Masonry is - although you should see them in at the bar, nothing dry about it.
These are, furthermore, grounded in a stupid analogy: what fool would tread a wet path when a dry one were available? Wet paths are dangerous, slippery things. I'd sooner mount a dry path to Hell than a wet one to Hull.
|
|
|
Post by bevan on Apr 21, 2005 10:39:54 GMT
Ruff, so let me get this right... You'd rather take a safe path to a dangerous place than a dangerous path to a safe, boring place? Is it the journey or the destination you're after? Do you believe there is a final destination or is everything always ever a journey...?
|
|
giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
|
Post by giovanni on Apr 21, 2005 12:28:29 GMT
The masonic path is “dry” since Brethren are requested to dry, i. e. to submit, their emotions, their passions…<br>Some succeed, some others don’t, or better, they need more time to leave their childish attitudes deciding thus to grow.
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Apr 21, 2005 18:27:11 GMT
Ruff, so let me get this right... You'd rather take a safe path to a dangerous place than a dangerous path to a safe, boring place? Is it the journey or the destination you're after? Do you believe there is a final destination or is everything always ever a journey...? Bevan ,i prefer the journey itself which sometimes involves to go where one has not gone before.
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Apr 21, 2005 18:28:18 GMT
Stewart,i mentioned circle in one of my posts on this thread. "The circle of Life maybe " ? and having done my third this means so much more to me now
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Apr 22, 2005 0:44:29 GMT
I avoid attaching labels such as "Wet" or "Dry" to Freemasonry as we all study it in our own way and put in and take out different things in different manners.
To illustrate , I have an acquaintance who I saw Initiated in 1995. Unlike myself he has not joined all the various well known Orders but is in 3 Craft Lodges, Mark and RAM and that's it, he isn't even in Royal Arch. Now whilst he was still in the Chair and was owing to circumstances going to do a second year as WM he was made a Provincial Grand Steward , a good Honour indeed and quite rare to given such when still in one's first year as WM. I can see him as an Assistant PGM (if not higher) in years to come, not an Office I would either want nor ever be given. However unlike myself it is probable that he will never experience most of the Higher Degrees such as KTs, Rose Croix, RCC, OSM, Cryptic etc.
Now he and I have a totally different approach. He is very much into the Social side of Freemasonry, I have little time for it, but we have each our own "take" on The Craft and enjoy it in our separate ways.
Now which of us is "Wet" and which "Dry"
|
|