|
Post by whistler on Feb 3, 2005 19:40:25 GMT
To some - Russells statement are impossible nonsense that is fair enough . This is not the time to enter debate.
To others Russells statements are possible. There are lots and lots of different esoteric reasons why what he said may be correct.
The great tribute to this Forum is that Russell can safely express his conclusions and be treated with respect
Thanks Staffs
|
|
|
Post by a on Feb 3, 2005 20:49:45 GMT
Could I add here that on more than one occassion Russells postings have helped me put certain issues into perspective, not least of which his book recommendation.
There is practical esoteric and there is academic esoteric. Most I guess stay at the academic level, Russell has had the courage and wisdom to share his practical experience, which is wonderful.
A bit more of that and some of the worlds problems will disappear fairly fast as consensus is found and bridges are healed. These are difficult times that take courage. But what is best: courage today when things can be done to benefit humanity, fellow creatures and our planet; or tomorrow (and in our lifetimes) when it may well be to late for anything but a major reset by Mother Nature?
Russell, your posts do make a difference.
As Whistler said: Staffs, thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Yoki on Feb 4, 2005 0:21:37 GMT
There are a lot of people with a lot to say about metaphysics, so consequentially it can be a bit of a minefield to negotiate. This leaves personal experience and experiences a reliable form of judgment and even then it really is only applicable to the individual So my judgment is based on my personal experience and Russell delivered, he was able to supply information that explained why I observed the energetic colour purple more readily than any other colour. Now offcourse only I know what I actually see and as one of my sons said it could be down to the fact that my eyes have had it (the more polite version) or then again auras, energies showing up as colours and other unknown phenomena are a fact. Even though much of what Russell writes is speculative except to someone of equal ability I find it interesting and informative. As a speculative Mason I strive for the next sage which is Spiritual and of which this phenomena is a by-product.
|
|
|
Post by hollandr on Feb 4, 2005 9:14:20 GMT
Thanks for the support - not that I need it as such - but it encourages me to offer more.
I hope some of us had a few goes at the experiment with the stars in the lodge. It may take some practice but it is a very important technique that should be mastered if we are to operate safely in the world of energy and intelligence.
And Yoki, it is not true to say that you are the only person to know what you see. For example the Adeptus Minor examination in the Golden Dawn required the examiner to inspect the temple visualisation of the candidate to check it for completeness and accuracy.
For myself I noticed in a workshop about 15 years ago that while leading a visual meditation that I could observe a small 3D image in front of each person's third eye and thereby could inspect their visualisation. The details I saw were confirmed for those I checked with later.
One of the great advantages of guided meditations is the confidence the participants achieve when what they see is the same as what others see, and even better when they see the event or entity seconds or even minutes before the person leading the meditation describes it.
Cheers
Russell
|
|
|
Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Feb 4, 2005 22:15:20 GMT
Russell, I can forsee your "new" masonry perhaps including such guided meditations as part of Regular Lodge workings, for it would give greater meaning and direction to our MO. With the energy already generated in opening a Lodge, such a meditation must be enormously enhanced!
|
|
|
Post by Yoki on Feb 4, 2005 23:11:32 GMT
What I am trying to say is that the proof of the pudding is in the eating, hence since I did not attend your work shop Russell I do not know with one hundred percent certainty that what you write is a fact. I do have to say that having someone share an others vision is a new one on me and I find the concept very interesting. I also feel that a small potion of scepticism is heath especially in this field of endeavour, were many give themselves over to religion, cults, leaders etc and get bogged down. Years ago I was imitated by a Guru from India which effected a profound experience, it turned out that he had quite a organization around him .Not long after the initiation I had a dream were his followers and myself were on a bus, we were the chosen ones going to our true home and everyone was very happy. When we got to our destination every one got of the bus but I wouldn't or couldn't. This dream did not make sense to me till latter when the dos and don'ts picked up and finally when we were told not to read the paper I thought b----r this for a joke. Truth is like the sands of the desert forever changing shape and you have to be careful that what you see is not what you want to see. I am still however intrigued with what you write and would like a better explanation of the experiment you purpose using the stars in the lodge, if this was on an other thread I missed it. Hubert I would love more time for any sort of meditation in the lodge be that before during or after as I find the small time allotted frustrating,
|
|
|
Post by hollandr on Feb 4, 2005 23:24:01 GMT
Yoki
The star experiment is in the 5 pointed star thread.
Hubert
The guided visualisation is indeed a fundamental for the new dispensation. Thereby we can perform group ritual out of the body.
And we don't need to learn ritual as it is organic, instead we have a harder task, learning to control our consciousness on the various planes so that it will do what we intend.
So the group visualisation forms a group light body and if we are good enough, either the temple in the heavens descends into the lodge to overlight our group light body, or our group light body ascends into the heavens and operates in the temple in the heavens where the 7 Brothers (that make a lodge perfect) are the officers.
I have put together groups occasionally to do this, taking months or years to develop the group skills. And the results can be quite profound for individuals, groups and localities.
For various reasons I am starting with a new group now. But most of them don't yet know the depth of what they have started.
Cheers
Russell
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Feb 6, 2005 23:07:45 GMT
Russell's curious ability to see colours couild simply be attributed to synaesthesia, the phenomenon of the brain reinterpreting sensory input to produce the effect of perceiving stimulus not actually present. Someone I know has a limited form of this: she hears sounds as widths, each songtune has a horizontal dimension in her perception.
I used to think the only only character in fiction with synaesthesia was my favourite villain, Dr Hannibal Lecter, who hears music as colours. But now there are also Luke from the novel Mondays are Red by Nicola Morgan; and Kitty Wellington from Claire Worrall's Astounding Splashes of Colour.
|
|
|
Post by whistler on Feb 6, 2005 23:32:36 GMT
Russell's curious ability to see colours couild simply be attributed to synaesthesia, the phenomenon of the brain reinterpreting sensory input to produce the effect of perceiving stimulus not actually present. Someone I know has a limited form of this: she hears sounds as widths, each songtune has a horizontal dimension in her perception. I used to think the only only character in fiction with synaesthesia was my favourite villain, Dr Hannibal Lecter, who hears music as colours. But now there are also Luke from the novel Mondays are Red by Nicola Morgan; and Kitty Wellington from Claire Worrall's Astounding Splashes of Colour. Then there are those who can see the colour in somebodies Aura and know they are pregnant, those who can see the colour of cancer in somebodies aura without even knowing them - it is all about in not putting limitations on what you can do and can't do - and accepting Universe in all its possibilities
|
|
|
Post by hollandr on Feb 7, 2005 10:00:27 GMT
One of the fun things in inner work is doing it in a group and comparing inner experiences afterwards.
It is remarkable how often several people see exactly the same thing even though nothing has been said to prompt the looking and the event might be quite different from expectations
Cheers
Russell
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Feb 8, 2005 5:49:31 GMT
It is remarkable how often several people see exactly the same thing even though nothing has been said to prompt the looking and the event might be quite different from expectations
Hardly remarkable at all. They are each involved in group work, and are thus naturally predisposed toward certain presumptions as to appropriate content.
|
|
|
Post by hollandr on Feb 8, 2005 11:52:46 GMT
One of the great comforts I had in my decade as a rationalist was that I could invent hypotheses to destroy other people's experiences knowing that my hypotheses were so obvious that they never needed any proof.
I am not sure I made too many friends but I never needed to change my mind. That was my great strength.
Eventually I discovered that there are higher experiences than mind and gave up rationalism as a way of life.
I sometimes wonder if I made the right choice.
Cheers
Russell
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Feb 9, 2005 6:53:22 GMT
"One of the great comforts I had in my decade as a rationalist was that I could invent hypotheses to destroy other people's experiences knowing that my hypotheses were so obvious that they never needed any proof."
A self-explanatory hyothesis (assuming such a thing exists - I don't happen to believe so) which is necessarily true by definition is its own proof and requires none outside of itself.
For example, "Either it's raining or it isn't."
"I am not sure I made too many friends but I never needed to change my mind. That was my great strength."
No, that was your greatest folly; apart from your current one, in which you think you are not doing exactly the same thing over again. You are: only the set of assumptions has altered.
"Eventually I discovered that there are higher experiences than mind and gave up rationalism as a way of life."
Congratulations. Even I never seriously entertained Rationalism: I am actually inclined to believe very irrational, illogical and quite fanciful things. Such, I reiterate, are my inclinations of belief. Inclined as I may be, I cannot bring myself to do so without questioning myself and thus neglect the discipline of my mental training: it is the one discipline I have managed to maintain in myself, and that chiefly because you need never get out of breath while doing its exercises.
I sometimes wonder if I made the right choice."
No, you know which decision was the right one, but you suspect you may not actually have made it.
|
|
|
Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Feb 9, 2005 8:43:49 GMT
Russell & Ruff,
surely ALL decisions are merely stepping stones to our next action.
If a decision was wrong we gain by its insight, if correct, we move on to the nect encounter.
With respect to group meditations etc, - Group work does have the ability for those present to "tune in" - else why would we have Masonic Meetings?
What I think others are indicating regarding meditation, is that a topic may be suggested at the begining of of the session, and after such when all are debriefing -so to speak- many relate to similar or identical personal revelations, whilst in their own "space".
For some of us that is akin to accessing the Akashic Record. The issue of collective collusion is usually suggested only by those who do not understand the integrity of those experimenting in such a fashion.
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Feb 10, 2005 6:59:30 GMT
Bingo!
Somebody actually mentioned the Akashic Records! Oh, I'm home, I'm really home!
Actually, my only reason for continued participation on this thread was an attempted reductio ad absurdum on Bro Russell's whackier theorisings, in which he would see his own face in the glass, yelp in superstitious horror, and recant his very strange beliefs in a phrensy of catechist asceticism.
Worse luck ,the loonier his statements get, the more he believes in them. I don't know whether to convert to gas or electricity.
Anyway, it's becoming silly and boring. I'm getting boring, to myself, never mind how Bro Russell must see me. So I'll just jack it in here and now and go for a cup of Java.
Bro Russell: vicis, Galilaee!
|
|
|
Post by hollandr on Feb 10, 2005 8:39:41 GMT
Ruffashlar
We are fortunate indeed that you do not aspire to be rational.
I hate to think how I would have fared if you were in rationalist mode.
Meanwhile, returning to the title of the thread we will just have to suppose that the millions of tourists on the Nile are really closet archeologists, historians and architects.
Cheers
Russell
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Feb 10, 2005 8:53:39 GMT
Bro Russell, come off while you are winning!
If Ruff Ashlar is going to leave this thread in peace take that as a bonus. He and I have crossed swords before on another forum and have agreed to differ.
In the meantime I must say that I find your theories of interest and thought provoking.
|
|
bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
|
Post by bod on Feb 10, 2005 8:59:29 GMT
Meanwhile, returning to the title of the thread we will just have to suppose that the millions of tourists on the Nile are really closet archeologists, historians and architects. Cheers Russell I find it easier to accept that they are tourists, and some might have an interest in archeology, history & architecture - it's certainly more acceptable than 'they must all be there because they are into re-incarnation' - although there is no doubt that some of them will be there because of the 'karmic resonance' (for want of better words)
|
|
|
Post by whistler on Feb 10, 2005 10:00:00 GMT
I started this thread, to point out that Russells claims were possible. Some will agree some will disagree lets leave it at that and discuss the things he raises and stop discussing Russell -
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Feb 10, 2005 10:57:43 GMT
"The Singer not the Song" ?
Alas, as in most contentious arguments the views and polices tend to be identified with the person, thus the strong antipathy towards the likes of Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair by some people in Britain although it is their polices and the effects thereof that are really being objected to.
I hope that Russell, about whom I have no strong views as a person, continues to expound and expand upon his thesis without being subjected to pedantry, sarcasm, or other put-downs. That is NOT the philosphy of this Forum!
|
|