|
Post by Temple on Apr 3, 2005 23:39:24 GMT
Although I do agree with the majority here and feel that for myself, I would rather my loved ones let me go than keep me around as a non-sentient shadow of myself, I honestly don't know what I'd do if it were my son. How do you let go? When your intellectual mind knows the truth but every other fibre of your being is clinging to them, how do you let go? I hope I never find out. Actually, I hope none of my relatives ever have to find out either
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Apr 4, 2005 5:24:02 GMT
Temple and others. I have been there regarding the death of my own Mother. I have to go off to work now, on early shift but will expand on this if anyone wishes me to do so when I get back about 4.00pm.
|
|
|
Post by plewis66 on Apr 4, 2005 17:20:52 GMT
Taylorsman:
Thats (generally thought of as being) a pretty personl thing.
If you feel it would be useful to others, and not intrusive into yourself or your family, then I'm sure there will be people interested.
But I wouldn't expect anyone would come right out and ask you to go there.
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Apr 4, 2005 18:09:05 GMT
I have no problem with telling this, as it is now nearly four years since she died.
Mum was 85 when she passed away, for 80 of these years she had a good life, a lively, chatty, smart little lady, full of good humour, commonsense and always willing to help anyone in genuine need.
Alas, when she and my Dad should have been able to enjoy the sunset of their days, Alzheimer's struck her down and progressively her personality was destroyed by this horrible disease. In my last visit to her before her death she hadn't a clue who I was , just some strange man whom her husband seemed to know. Sometimes she didn't even recognise him although they had been married for 55 years.
In her last months she had three strokes the final of these resulting in her being admitted to a local hospital geriatric ward. I guessed this was the end and had flown up to Scotland but that very evening we got a call to the hospital, she had been moved to the High Dependency Ward. The Junior Hospital doctor told us that the damage to her brain had paralysed her digestive system and she was suffering from toxic megacolon which had ruptured and peritonitis had set in. They COULD operate but she was in a very poor way indeed and could die on the table or soon afterwards. There was a strong probabilty that she would die within a day or so in any event. I would add that she had been comatose for about a week and had been bedridden for many months before that with a nurse attending to her needs every day.
The only merciful decision was to let her go and I feel that the powerful painkillers given to her MAY have eased her going . However it was to be another 15 hours before she was released from her misery. It was pure anguish to watch her slowly die , far more so for my father. I felt impotent that nothing could be done to more quickly end her suffering and considered the bitter irony that a terminally ill cat or dog would be given an easier death and even worse that in that very week, Mc Vey the Oklahoma Bomber had quickly died for his crimes with a lethal injection yet this poor old lady who had harmed nobody had to take 15 hours to die, although the Hospital Staff did all they could towards her comfort, but their hands and mine were tied.
From when I was old enough to understand such matters I have always been in favour Euthanasia and this confirmed my belief.
For that reason I salute Mr Schiavo and the struggle he had to release his wife from her suffering and mere empty shadow of a life and I would shake his hand. I would only shake my fist at those who tried to prolong her agony!
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Apr 4, 2005 18:53:43 GMT
From when I was old enough to understand such matters I have always been in favour Euthanasia and this confirmed my belief. For that reason I salute Mr Schiavo and the struggle he had to release his wife from her suffering and mere empty shadow of a life and I would shake his hand. I would only shake my fist at those who tried to prolong her agony! Euthanasia, in certain circumstances, is something that I am in favour of. When it is apparent that someone is suffering needlessly over an extended period and there is nothing anyone can do I would support the euthanasia approach. It must be heartbreaking for those who have to make such decisions but such decisions are, in my view, a necessary "evil." Being "cruel to be kind" type of thing. I believe that our human bodies are merely flesh and bone, and that the real essence of who we actually are; our spirit, our soul, that very part of us we sometimes call "consciousness" can never actually be hurt in any way. Our physical bodies are merely genetics space suits but because we are essentially trapped within these bodies we have to endure absolutely everything the physical world can throw at us. If we have physical ability, and are suffering some form of extreme mental torture, we can easily make the decision to end our own life. Those who lack such ability, and are in a similar state of mental torment, are not able to make such a choice and can only rely on others to make such a decision. If I ever found myself to be in such a state as that poor woman in America I would certainly hope that my wife would have the strength necessary to"pull the plug."
|
|
|
Post by plewis66 on Apr 4, 2005 21:56:40 GMT
One of the best quotes I've ever read was written by a medium 'channelling a spirit' calling itself Emanuelle. When asked what it was like to die, Emanuelle replied: "It's like taking off a tight shoe".
|
|
|
Post by foxcole on Apr 5, 2005 0:31:53 GMT
I agree with this.
I also see that other people tend to value human life on the shallow more than any other. They have no trouble dispatching a terminally suffering animal (sorry if that sounded callous, but thinking about it, you might see it isn't at all) but suddenly the rules change when it's a human life. Our medical oaths, obligations and the ensuing advances in health sciences and technologies have completely blurred the line as to what does or does not constitute life.
That question hasn't been settled yet. Nor can it be, until we grow spiritually enough to not only learn by recitation our real state of existence and purpose on Earth, but to understand it and be it; to hold that knowledge in our hearts, to be, through all humankind, enlightened.
I think, however, that when we come to that point, the need for this world will be near its end.
|
|
|
Post by whistler on Apr 5, 2005 1:02:51 GMT
There is an interesting side to this debate. For both a Numerologist and an Astrologist point of view. There is a very precise moment for birth and death. No mention of a Caesarean or Natural Birth. Or Natural death, Accident or Murder. It is a moment of Birth and a Moment of Death
|
|
|
Post by foxcole on Apr 5, 2005 2:05:08 GMT
There is an interesting side to this debate. For both a Numerologist and an Astrologist point of view. There is a very precise moment for birth and death. No mention of a Caesarean or Natural Birth. Or Natural death, Accident or Murder. It is a moment of Birth and a Moment of Death That opens up whole new possibilities. What is a moment? To our universal Creator, and in all definition of the universe, what is a moment? Perhaps the moment cannot or should not be defined in earthly temporal terms; perhaps it lasts any indefinite length of time---or, rather variable length of time, defined only by its start and by its finish. A nanosecond, an eterninty, maybe an event itself defines a moment. Maybe Terri Schiavo's moment of death began 15 solar years ago and ended a few days ago. Maybe it didn't matter to her or to God exactly how many minutes or days or years were involved. Perhaps we've been looking at it too humanly, too solar.
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Apr 5, 2005 4:24:31 GMT
Whether a human or an animal if I see some sentient creature suffering, in a terminal state, in pain, stripped of all dignity and for a human being, having lost those essential capabilities which make them Human, the ability to communicate, to react, to interact, where their situation is beyond remedy then my compassion wishes them to have an end to their suffering be they a close relative or friend or a total stranger such as the late Mrs Schiavo. I would wish that someone would end my misery in such circumstances so would want the same for anyone so afflicted. I fail to see any benefit in someone suffering pain , humiliation, of their wasting away , of their being reduced to a "cabbage".
Again I repeat, if we would do this act of mercy for a cat or dog in a terminal condition, and I have had to have much loved cats "put to sleep", then to me it is the more important that this be permitted for a human.
I have no problem with the idea of Active Euthanasia, and hope that one day we permit it as is the case in parts of Switzerland and one of the Australian States, subject of course to legal safeguards etc.
|
|
|
Post by foxcole on Apr 5, 2005 7:51:50 GMT
Whether a human or an animal if I see some sentient creature suffering, in a terminal state, in pain, stripped of all dignity and for a human being, having lost those essential capabilities which make them Human, the ability to communicate, to react, to interact, where their situation is beyond remedy then my compassion wishes them to have an end to their suffering be they a close relative or friend or a total stranger such as the late Mrs Schiavo. I would wish that someone would end my misery in such circumstances so would want the same for anyone so afflicted. I fail to see any benefit in someone suffering pain , humiliation, of their wasting away , of their being reduced to a "cabbage". Again I repeat, if we would do this act of mercy for a cat or dog in a terminal condition, and I have had to have much loved cats "put to sleep", then to me it is the more important that this be permitted for a human. I have no problem with the idea of Active Euthanasia, and hope that one day we permit it as is the case in parts of Switzerland and one of the Australian States, subject of course to legal safeguards etc. I didn't mean we should do nothing. Those thoughts were actually tangential to this thread, sparked by a suggestion, and irrelevant to my own feelings about physical dying and death. They of course have no bearing on corporeal suffering. My apologies. Personally, if I suffer brain death or severe damage, I want my body kept alive---for as long as they need to support it to keep the organs healthy while arrangements are made. Then I want them to harvest from this body anything that can be used to help another person: skin grafts, kidneys, heart, bone marrow, eyes, whatever; then put whatever else can be used toward the advancement of science; and cremate the rest. I can't imagine my family or I in good conscience doing anything else. I won't be using those parts, so someone else might as well.
|
|