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Post by whistler on Mar 24, 2005 1:00:19 GMT
The Mayan long-count calendar ends precisely at 6 a.m., December 21, 2012.
Why did they choose that date is it correct Did the Calendar start around 3000 BC Mayan People were very clever -- wonder why they gave an end time to their Calendar The Maya knew the exact length of the true solar year as 365.2420 days, that is, with a minus error of 0.0002, while our present Gregorian calendar has it at 365.2425, or a plus error of 0.0003." If they could do that they must have a reason around the calendar end
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Post by a on Mar 24, 2005 7:14:02 GMT
Whistler
You are, I think, going to have some UGLE-amity FM ask what this has to do with Freemasonry.
Apart from that I will be silent for the moment. I am curious to see how this thread goes.
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 24, 2005 9:31:00 GMT
Well, I come under UGLE, but I would NOT ask that Question and those who would do so will be more likely to be on the "Other Forum" if any or involved in a Vintage Car Rally, or perhaps a Golf Tournament or arranging their Ladies Night to be interested in a matter as arcane as this.
There are lots of "in these final days" predictions at this time and there have been since the Millenium in 2000. Even technology got caught up in this, remember all the ballyhoo about the Y2K bug, never happened did it, but a lot of people made much money selling snake oil cures for Computer Systems etc.
That having been said, I don't reject such ideas out of hand and it is fascinating that the Mayas should end their calendar then. Is there some very signficant astronomical or astrological event at that time, does an asteroid come close to the Earth then, is it a sunspot maximum?
It is of interest that many of the well know predictions, St Brendan, Nostradamus etc all seem to protend some climacteric event for Humanity in the next 10 years or so. The current poor health of the present Pope, (let's face it he's dying), revived lists of predictions about him being the last Pope as we know one and being followed by some more open collegiate form of government for the Roman Catholic Church, wishfull thinking perhaps?
Whenever the (Western) Calendar throws up a date with "000" then such predictions are found, there were lots of these in 1000 and some people actually believed that Christ would come in Glory to Judge the Quick and the Dead and went out into the fields and the hills to wait for him.
If anyone has ought to propose for the good of this thread, please do so. I for one, like Stewart although driven by rather different interests and outlooks, would also like to see how this discussion develops and would welcome any other such evidence of some great event for Humanity within the next 10 years or so.
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Post by leonardo on Mar 24, 2005 9:55:11 GMT
It ends when it ends. No one person, Nation or group of people have it right so far. But someone's guess will eventually be right. My guess is anytime within the next 50 billion years
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Post by ingo on Mar 24, 2005 10:26:15 GMT
Whistler, absolutely no idea. But I would be interested in the answer.
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 24, 2005 10:27:44 GMT
Ten out of ten Leo. There are mathematical projections that the sun will go nova at a particular time tens of thousands of years from now and destroy life as we know it on the inner planets. None of us will be around then, so why worry? We can't stop it anyway, but by then may well have left this planet for others in outer space.
There has recently been a TV docudrama about a supervolcano under Yellowstone Park in the USA erupting and the death toll that would cause both immediately in the USA and consequentually over the entire Earth owing to the dust cloud in the atmosphere etc.
The "Green Brigade" rabbit on about global warming and the alleged dire effects thereof. Again I don't imagine this will have many results either beneficial or detrimental in the rest of my life, say the next 30 years. Assuming there is not a global nuclear, chemical, or biological war which renders the planet uninhabitable to Humanity or barren and thus unable to sustain life then I feel we will be here for some time to come, force majure excepted .
Eventually I hope we may make contact with some other intelligent extraterrestrial Life Forms and thus gain the ability to move off this planet but again I don't now expect to see this happen in my lifetime, 2001 AD just didn't happen in reality, whatever Messrs Clark and Kubrick predicted.
So I would welcome further explanation of the Dec 2012 Maya prediction with any tie in to other predictions or projected physical events scheduled for that time window.
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Post by a on Mar 24, 2005 10:58:29 GMT
Think back to Whistlers post, he made a thought about reason.
Let me add one.
How could the Maya have such knowledge so long ago?
Remember we are not simply talking future predictions, we are talking very precise facts which our scientists have only recently (in the general scheme of things)rediscovered.
I will offer another clue, think about Whistlers Pillars thread before it digressed.
I would suggest that this is an area worthy of a lot of thought.
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Post by whistler on Mar 24, 2005 11:47:51 GMT
Please also note that the Mayan's didn't say the earth would end - they did say big changes would occur
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 24, 2005 12:14:10 GMT
We do tend to think of the end of Humanity and the End of the Earth as being the same when they are not. The Dinosaurs lasted a lot longer than us but have long since been extinct, but the Earth has gone on.
I understand that although we can adjust our environment by artificial means, eg, heating, air conditioning, bottled oxygen etc, it would not take massive changes in mean temperature, atmospheric pressure and content, radiation levels etc to make life difficult if not impossible for Homo Sapiens whilst other lifeforms would continue and even benefit. The recent Tsunami showed just how dependent we are on our infrastructure and imagine it had affected coastal Europe or the seaboards of the USA? So some tremendous event could well occur which would not destroy the Earth but could inflict great and even irrecoverable damage on Humanity.
Any further enlightenment on what is supposed to happen then would be of interest.
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Post by a on Mar 24, 2005 12:20:22 GMT
Humanity may evolve into being more humane.
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Post by munkholt on Mar 24, 2005 12:38:24 GMT
It's always the End Times. Just as it is always In the Beginning. Important Myths. Maybe the Mayans just needed Time to be finite, conceptually. Same as it needed to Begin at some specific point. stewart: Evolve? If it's part of a cataclysmic, time-stopping, event, wouldn't that rather signify a revolution than slow progress? Instant global transcendence.
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 24, 2005 13:06:14 GMT
There is the Lambda Theory that Human Civilisation gets to the point of very high technological achievement perhaps reaching goals such as being able to travel off the planet, create and clone life etc then it all collapses and those that survive are thrown back to being primitive , almost stone age. There used to be an old Cold War joke, "WW3 will be fought with ICBMs, WW4 with sticks and stones" Some feel this is what happened to Atlantis.
Is Dec 2012 going to mark the start of some process which will do this to Humanity? Perhaps some cataclysm such as the Tsunami, or other natural catastrophe, a terrorist incident which unleashes a massive retaliation, some accident involving chemical , biological or nuclear materials? I don't worry about this, I have other fish to fry, but am naturally curious. So please don't drop hints but come out with it if you have any information or theories, otherwise I look forward to waking up on December 22nd and doing my Xmas Shopping as usual.
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Post by a on Mar 24, 2005 14:07:58 GMT
Is Dec 2012 going to mark the start of some process It may indeed, or it may be irrelevant nonsense, or it may mark a defining point in a process that has been going on for a half century already.
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Post by jratcliff on Mar 24, 2005 14:14:53 GMT
There are certain recurring myths that occur in the collective unconscious. This notion of 'earth changes' is one of them. I think it is interesting and worthy of a good story.
I'm not so big on the notion of past advanced technological civilizations though. I believe we would have found that evidence. No matter how devastating of an event might happen to the planet, I believe our debris will be left to be found for a very long time.
Recently in one of the major science magazines, I think 'science' or 'nature', there was a paper about long cycles of destruction on the planet every 62 million years. Apparently we are 3 million years over due for such an event. <g>
There are three 'theories' for cyclical acts of destruction that sound compelling.
(1) Solar 'typhoons' (2) Shift of the magnetic poles. (3) Space debris.
For the first one, we already know the sun goes through cycles. The idea is that there is a 'long' cycle, where the sun produces monsterous sized solar flares which cause vast destruction.
The second one is definitely true, and we are in the middle of a magnetic pole reversal now. The question is, what kind of 'destruction' could this event cause? The magnetic field of the earth shields us from a great deal of harmful radiation. As it weakens, there is an increased risk of destruction of biological organisms due to this loss of protection.
The third is the idea that out there in space, with our name on it, is a very large field of debris. This debris enters our solar system on a regular periodic cycle and produces a whole lot of chaos and destruction. This theory was put forth as 'most likely' for the 62 million year long cycle of repeated mass extinctions on earth.
At the end of the day, none of this really matters. I have known people who got themselves so worked up about their belief that earth changes were imminent that they ended up losing out on a lot of life in the process. They did some very strange things to themselves and their family based on these eschatological belief systems.
For myself, I just think it makes for an entertaining story. I'm surprised we don't have more works of fiction that pursue these kinds of ideas. When I was a kid I always enjoyed post-apocalyptic science ficiton stories. I found them fascinating.
To my friends who 'worry' about such things I try to put it into perspective. For a large portion of my life, I grew up with the real and legitimate fear of global nuclear holocaust. The cold war was very real and there were any number of times where it seemed as though one quick change in global politics could destroy the planet.
Now, much to my relief, I don't worry about that sort of thing any more. I hardly think the hypothetical possibility of a solar flare, magnetic reversal, or passing asteriod, is worth the trouble.
If, for the sake of 'fantasy' you want to associate a specific predictable event that ancient astronomers somehow 'knew about', via cosmic consciousness, whatever. I would use the theory about cycles of the sun.
The sun rules the earth and it not nearly as stable as we like to think it is. Just visit NASA websites and you will gain an appreciation for what a dynamic ball of fire he really is.
Bro. John
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 24, 2005 14:15:37 GMT
In other words, Stewart, like myself and I would assume most of us you simply do not know?
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Post by a on Mar 24, 2005 14:34:33 GMT
In other words, Stewart, like myself and I would assume most of us you simply do not know? I could only answer that from an esoteric perspective, in that I can not offer any proof beyond what science is coming to recognise, which John has given a good description about. I personally feel that our world is currently going through a major period of change, some natural cycles, and some manmade. Many of these changes don't bode well for the human race unless it can find a way of becoming more humane. While the likes of the United Nations and the European Union have made some headway we still have far to go. And with so many different threats to our future and security, the only real way forward is finding our own humanity, and coming together as one people. From this we can then build. As I was reminded some time back, it is all a matter of time. And the human perspective of time can be rather limited.
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 24, 2005 15:33:24 GMT
A fair answer Stewart and when taken with J Ratcliff's gives a reasonable appreciation on this question.
Unlike yourself Stewart I am not at all optimistic about the future conduct of mankind. With the likes of Bush in the White House and Blair in No 10 the prospect looks bleak for the next 4 or 5 years anyway. I don't have much faith in the UN or the EU to resolve matters and the recent hawkish behaviour of the USA both in the war in Iraq and sabre ratting by M/S C Rice at Iran, North Korea, Syria and even the cheek to tell the Chinese how to run their internal affairs shows that the maxim "Might is Right" still rules as much in 2005 as it did in 1905.
I see the World becoming far more polarised especially between the West and Islam. Perhaps it WILL need a threat from without such as in the film "Independence Day" to unite humanity to a common purpose but I can see a rocky road ahead and Freemasonry does not contain the answer to this, we cannot even recognise other Grand Lodges, e.g. LDH, GLDF etc far less resolve the conflicts in the World at large.
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Post by a on Mar 24, 2005 16:05:28 GMT
I can see a rocky road ahead Unfortunately I agree.Freemasonry is but one set of tools to help mankind. And hence does contain an answer, for if all Freemasonic lodges were genuine beacons of light in their communities, and Freemasons were trusted and respected by all, then all sorts of benefits would fall out from this. indeed it is strange, with concepts like, love, relief and truth that different branches can find it so difficult. Freemaosnry can't resolve conflicts, that will take the hearts of men to open to achieve. All Freemasonry can do is help people come to know themselves better and be an illuminating light in the world that people respect and trust. Just my opinions obviously.
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Post by whistler on Mar 25, 2005 2:23:20 GMT
We don't know --- maybe some do. I started my thread based on the immense knowledge the Mayan's had about things in the Heaven and earth. Their number system based on 20 which is different, they knew how long a Solar year was and much more-- what happend to all that wisdom as their civilization declined and transformed into a peasant culture. This thread is not so much a dooms day topic, it is about the transfer of wisdom from one group to another - How or why do a people develop such great knowledge only to abandon it.
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 25, 2005 3:14:10 GMT
"what happend to all that wisdom as their civilization declined and transformed into a peasant culture. This thread is not so much a dooms day topic, it is about the transfer of wisdom from one group to another - How or why do a people develop such great knowledge only to abandon it."
Did not the Spaniards destroy the Mayan Culture and impose Roman Catholicism on them by the Sword as they did for other parts of what is now Central and South America?
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