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Post by billmcelligott on May 23, 2016 20:19:43 GMT
In "The History of St Dogmaels Abbey" by Emily Pritchard, she says that : “They (the Tironensians) now worked night and day building their cloisters; they wore a monk's habit; but it was different to that of other orders, being made of sheep's skin, owing to their great poverty.”If it was great poverty, it was a temporary one, as the Monks of Tiron soon accumulated great wealth. in any case, Brethren should take note of the mention of sheep's skin. The choice of sheep's skin may have been a very practical one, as a sheep's skin, or a leather apron, provides much more protection to a stone worker than an ordinary monk's habit would or could. The Cistercian monks, who did not trouble themselves with manual labour like this, would have no need of sheep's skin habits. As we now know, the leather apron later acquired a symbolism all of its own, as the Tironensians became the originators of operative and speculative freemasonry in Scotland. It was I suspect a question of practicality. Having used a tool apron for many years, I chose a soft leather easy to buckle and pliable although of a modern design to fit power tools etc. It did the same job. You only have to try and kneel with a long roabe or a thick leather apron. It just does not work. You want to carry your tools and have them ready even when you are in a stupid position. It just makes sense.
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Post by boreades on May 26, 2016 20:19:11 GMT
Ritual aprons were also used in ancient Egypt. I'm glad you mentioned that. I can remember reading it, but not where. Any ideas?
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Post by peter2 on May 28, 2016 2:25:32 GMT
Here is an Egyptian apron And another described as used in mortuary ritual - like the 3rd degree? Here is a South American apron. Note the square in the right hand and the decoration on the hat that reminds me of a skull and crossed bones
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Post by billmcelligott on May 29, 2016 21:49:14 GMT
I suspect some kind of apron was used from the beginning of time, jut so the Stone worker did not hurt himself too much whilst at his labours.
Isn't it kinda obviouse that someone working with stone would fimd a way to make it not hurt so much ?
As a fisherman would make sure he is not wearing too much clothing as he fishes on a river from a small boat. He would be fully aware that a lot of clothing would or could be a problem if you went over.
So we find similar attire in South Americas and in the Middle East and Far East.
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Post by jakubus on Jun 19, 2016 3:32:37 GMT
I suspect some kind of apron was used from the beginning of time, jut so the Stone worker did not hurt himself too much whilst at his labours. Isn't it kinda obviouse that someone working with stone would fimd a way to make it not hurt so much ? As a fisherman would make sure he is not wearing too much clothing as he fishes on a river from a small boat. He would be fully aware that a lot of clothing would or could be a problem if you went over. So we find similar attire in South Americas and in the Middle East and Far East. Isnt there some significance here with wool or Lambskin ? There is a connection between the word Sufi and wool in Arabic, so I am led to believe. Having witnessed a Mevlevi ceremony recently, a sheeps skin was placed on the ground at one stage. Also in Syria I remember seeing ancient clay figures depicted wearing woollen garments. Adding to the apron discussion, check out Gobekli Tepe, an ancient temple complex dating back to 10,000 BC, a huge monolinth was carved with arms wearing an apron.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 19, 2016 14:27:08 GMT
Yes, from Symbolical Masonry, by H.L. Haywood, [1923] p. 140
For one purpose or another, and in some form, the apron has been used for three or four thousand years. In at least one of the Ancient Mysteries, that of Mithras, the candidate was invested with a white apron. So also was the initiate of the Essenes, who received it during the first year of his membership in that order; and it is significant that many of the statues of Greek and Egyptian gods were so ornamented, as may still be seen. Chinese secret societies, in many cases, also used it, and the Persians, at one time, employed it as their national banner. Jewish prophets often wore aprons, as did the early Christian candidates for baptism, and as ecclesiastical dignitaries of the present day still do. The same custom is found even among savages, for, as Brother J. G. Gibson has remarked, "wherever the religious sentiment remains—even among the savage nations of the earth—there has been noticed the desire of the natives to wear a girdle or apron of some kind."
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Post by boreades on Sept 18, 2016 21:36:45 GMT
A stray thought has occurred to me. (Neuron-bumping moment)
We're told that "The Hiberno-Scottish mission was a mission initiated by Gaelic monks from Ireland and the western coast of modern-day Scotland, which spread Christianity and established monasteries in Great Britain and continental Europe during the Middle Ages. The mission originated in 563 "
Very good.
But where did these early Christians find the stone-working skills to build these monastories? Did anything like them already exist? If these pre-dated the first churches, had anything like them existed before in Britain? Does anything at all appear in the earlier historical record, until you look at the Mithraic Temples in Britain, built by the Mithraic Roman troops?
Could this be the real ancient origins of Freemasonry in Britain?
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Post by boreades on Sept 18, 2016 22:00:57 GMT
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Post by peter2 on Sept 19, 2016 7:28:18 GMT
>until you look at the Mithraic Temples in Britain, built by the Mithraic Roman troops? Could this be the real ancient origins of Freemasonry in Britain? Freemasonry includes quite a number of Mithraic practices. For example the Mithraic Brotherhood was known as "the brotherhood of the grip" Note the pillar of stones. In the Sumerian language a pillar of stone dedicated to the god Ea was called Ea-gub. This comes into Hebrew as Yakov and we recall Jacob slept on a stone pillow - the mysterious Porphyry stone. And there was a ladder on the floor each rung representing a degree with 3 working tools per degree And Mithras has 2 assistants Cautes and Cautopates (Wardens?) One holds his torch (column) up and the other down - supposedly representing the Sun. So was it in front of Cautes that we were taught to be caut-ious? Note the crossed legs. In Masonry we typically have the emblems of mortality with crossed leg bones.
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Post by boreades on Sept 19, 2016 22:20:00 GMT
A new Temple of Mithras is being built right now in the middle of London. Well, actually, they're reassembling the bits and pieces they found in 1954. The first time round, they stuck the bits and pieces together with cement. A more sympathetic reconstruction is due to open in 2017 in the basement of the new Bloomburg HQ as "The London Mithraeum". Pictures and words here: www.mola.org.uk/projects/commercial/archaeological-consultancy-temple-mithras-reconstruction
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Post by peter2 on Sept 20, 2016 2:22:04 GMT
I will visit next time I am in London - could be some years yet.
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Post by offramp on Sept 21, 2016 8:44:13 GMT
I remember reading of Buckfast Abbey, which Scottish & Irish brethren will know as the source of the famous Wreck The Hoose Juice. It is a lovely building! Wikipedia says:and that the Abbey was completed in 20 years. Mathematically, I'd say that 6 monks making a huge abbey in 20 years is more impressive than 80,000 workers taking 7 years to build the Temple of Solomon.
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Post by peter2 on Sept 21, 2016 21:23:14 GMT
> 80,000 workers taking 7 years to build the Temple of Solomon. Odd that no evidence has been found. Options are: - never existed - was totally annihilated along with all artifacts from the empire - was in another place - was in another time - was in another place and another time. "Historical evidence of King Solomon other than the biblical accounts has been so minimal that some scholars have understood the period of his reign as a 'Dark Age' " Hint: Is Suleiman the Magnificent the same as Solomon the Great? They had the same characteristics, deeds and reputation. Suleiman: Suleiman had a impressive concubine Rosa and not until after their deaths does the Rose of Sharon appear in the Bible - in the KJV. "Hurrem Sultan, the Cheerful Rose of Suleiman I ....The name Hürrem was given her by the Sultan Suleiman I, and means “the cheerful one”- but in the eyes of many of her rivals she was the most dangerous weapon in Constantinople’s armory. "
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Post by boreades on Sept 27, 2016 22:20:46 GMT
> 80,000 workers taking 7 years to build the Temple of Solomon. Odd that no evidence has been found. "Historical evidence of King Solomon other than the biblical accounts has been so minimal that some scholars have understood the period of his reign as a 'Dark Age' " Let's tread gently. It does not require a great deal of foresight to anticipate that any meddling with Jewish history might be perceived by some as an anti-Semitic exercise. For that reason, it's safest to consult the expert Israeli and Jewish archaeologists. Prof. Ze’ev Herzog (head of the Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Studies at Tel Aviv University) has said : “Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs’ acts are legendary stories, we did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, we did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon. Those who take an interest have known these facts for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and doesn’t want to hear about it”“The Bible Unearthed“ (by Israel Finkelstein & Neil Asher Silberman) covers the subject in much more detail. If Solomon is just legend and didn't exist, and therefore didn't build a temple, who did build it? I suspect we don't want "Outraged of UGLE" banging on our door. So let's politely suggest the "orthodox" Masonic origins with Solomon might also be described as "stubborn". Brethren should continue their education into the Hidden Mysteries by looking-up subjects like the Temples of Emperor Hadrian in Jerusalem. e.g. 1) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aelia_Capitolina2) www.templemount.org/mtmoriah.htmlSome say that any mention of a 'Dark Age' is a sure sign of a suspect chronology, or dodgy dating. As in, a few "Dark" centuries have to be inserted, to maintain the preferred timelines. Have you read "Centuries of Darkness"? (by Peter James, I. J. Thorpe, Nikos Kokkinos, Robert Morkot & John Frankish) Their website : www.centuries.co.uk/They say "the only book to provide a serious alternative to the accepted dating of ancient Egypt and the Near East (Bronze to Iron Age)." - which I suppose is their way of avoiding any mention of Formenko and thereby hedging their bets of still being credible "serious mainstream" historians. Recent Developments : www.centuries.co.uk/news.htm
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Post by peter2 on Sept 27, 2016 23:04:31 GMT
There is a branch of historical study called New Chronology. Starting with Isaac Newton there has been a series of well-known figures that disagreed with large parts of conventional (Scaligerian) chronology including its dark ages - so-called because of lack of evidence. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Justus_Scaligerwww.univer.omsk.su/foreign/fom/fom.htmThe best known living exponent is a Russian mathematician Anatoly Fomenko www.chronologia.org/en/His 7 very large volumes are heavy going and arguably he does present rather more evidence than needed for his arguments. One of his more interesting data points is his analysis of the star scenes on the ceilings of ancient Egyptian tombs. The star scenes show constellations and wanderers (planets). From each scene an astrological chart can be drawn and using computer programs a match or matches can be found with historical dates. He provides detailed examples and says that of about 30 (as I recall) scenes, all provide astrological charts that date to our Middle Ages. If so, those tombs are much more recent than Scaligerian chronology states. I certainly noticed in Rome long ago that reputedly 2000 year old buildings were surprisingly good condition for that climate. Many such examples can be found scanning Google images. And occasionally an artifact will be dug up that is in too good condition for its supposed age. Here is an example: " academics "were at first hesitant" to announce the find, with its "unbelievable condition" leading them to doubt its Roman origins. " www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/archaeology/10411832/Exceptionally-rare-Roman-statue-unearthed-in-City-of-London-building-site.htmlIt is not the origin that is unbelievable, it is the dating of the origin. Fomenko, using statistical patterns of great similarity, demonstrates that much of our received history is cut and paste from events in the Middle Ages, with changes of name, sometimes only by a letter or two. Plagiarism is not a new academic failing.
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Post by peter2 on Sept 28, 2016 23:22:40 GMT
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Post by boreades on Sept 29, 2016 21:19:01 GMT
One of his more interesting data points is his analysis of the star scenes on the ceilings of ancient Egyptian tombs. The star scenes show constellations and wanderers (planets). From each scene an astrological chart can be drawn and using computer programs a match or matches can be found with historical dates. Devils advocate mode: Aren't the position of constellations and planets likely to repeat over a long-enough cycle? How do we know we aren't looking at the most-recent repeat in a long-running cycle?
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Post by peter2 on Sept 30, 2016 0:14:13 GMT
>How do we know we aren't looking at the most-recent repeat in a long-running cycle?
As I recall his computer program had no particular bias limiting how far back or forward it would go.
I rather think that the lunar cycles repeat every 55000 years, and that may be less than the age of the Great Pyramid - at least according to Blavatsky.
On the other hand the Pole Star moves in a 26000 year cycle against a slowly moving backdrop of stars.
So in principle a star chart, not including the Moon, showing up as our Middle Ages could equally be from 26500 years ago. It is possible therefore that all these tombs were decorated in a short period about 26500 years ago after which no further tombs were built.
The official age of occupation around the Nile in Egypt is about 8000 years.
Perhaps the Devil might struggle with this one as it is commonly held that the ancient Egyptian civilisation lasted for around 3000 years.
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