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Post by penfold on Nov 26, 2007 15:54:54 GMT
We also used to wear frock-coats and shoes with buckles and hose, you bringing that back too?
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Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 26, 2007 17:17:55 GMT
That has what to do with the price of tea in China?
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Post by parisfred on Nov 26, 2007 17:42:54 GMT
We need choice to avoid failure or extinction it is how the nature preserve species... I think we never had the "unique party" in the history of the freemasonry. Even In England there are at least 4 different GLs. Anyway there is enough place for many GLs and many GOs, I hope we will be respectful of each other choices. At least here on MFoL
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 26, 2007 18:31:07 GMT
What are they calling themselves today? Or is this name going to stick for a month or two? The Grand Orient of the United States is a part of a global network of Grand Lodges and lodges in amity with the Grand Orient of France. We have thousands of brothers around the world connected to us through this chain of union. The result of this union brings with it many wonderful things for the American Masons that are a part of it. Let me quote what Bro. Saul has already said on the BurningTaper. 1. Lodges will be able to choose from hundreds of Symbolic rituals. They no longer have to do the same ritual as everyone else. 2. Many of the old European Rites will be restored and available to any lodge to work. 3. Masonic education will be the norm in lodges, as opposed to the exception. 4. All Grand Orient lodges will be "Traditional Observance" because they are traditional in nature. 5. Lodges will be sovereign and the Grand Orient will serve them, not the other way around. 6. Racism is abolished. The Grand Orient is open to all men regardless of color. 7. The Grand Master cannot issue edicts or expel any brother. Masonic justice will be before a jury of your brothers. 8. Masons will be able to visit lodges around the globe full of brothers who seek the same level of enlightenment as they do. The name change merely reflects our commitment to our brothers around the world. Jeff
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Post by lauderdale on Nov 26, 2007 18:33:35 GMT
Precisely, Bro Devout. Clothing customs are only an external. I understand that in some Lodges in the USA the dress code is rather informal, e.g. shorts can be worn, whereas here in the UK a dark Lounge Suit is the lowest option usually permitted, with some Lodges stipulating Morning Suit or even a Dinner Jacket (Tuxedo) ensemble. In LDH it is dark suit for men and either white or black dress for women depending on the Lodge. To me it is the content not the wrapper that counts.
Yes no doubt in the 1700s Masons did wear such clothing in Lodge. The also ate, drank and smoked therein , the latter now banned by Law in the British Isles. I have even read that in one Lodge in the 1700s there was a Chamber Pot (potty) provide as neither the Master nor any Brother was supposed to leave the Lodge until it had been Closed and this was for Brethren to restore their personal comforts. Those were far more robust times than today but that story may be apocryphal .
Yes, Eurpean Freemasonry does discuss the subjects of Religion and Politics in Lodge, a taboo to our Anglo-Saxon counterparts, and has a different "Mission and Values". being far more Esoteric , Sybolical and Speculative and less Social.
The Brethren who have made this decision have put their money where there mouths are so to speak and have not just sat there and moaned as too many do. In a way they remind me of the Founding Fathers of the USA, (quite a few of whom were Masons) who also stood up and took a great risk for what they held dear and believed in. Sometimes one has to leave the comfort zone of what is familiar and move to a new situation, perhaps losing friends as a result.
Time will tell if the Grand Orient of the USA will take roots or die out, but I sense from various posts both here and on other Fora that there is a need for such a Masonic Affiliation in the USA.
I will continue to observe with interest.
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 26, 2007 18:44:52 GMT
Bros. Leo and lauderdale,
Thank you for your kind and brotherly words of encouragement. I think this is the best thing to happen in American Masonry in a very long time. I look forward to working with all my new brothers and sisters! :-)
Jeff
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Post by leonardo on Nov 26, 2007 19:00:42 GMT
Thank you Bro:. Jeff.
As far as I am aware my own Obedience, LDH (The Order of International Co-Freemasonry, Le Droit Humain) also has fraternal relations with the Grand Orient de France.
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 26, 2007 19:16:07 GMT
Bro. Leo,
The Grand Orient of the United States will have an open door policy towards all Masons. Our aim is the brotherhood of all human beings. You'll be welcome in all of our lodges Bro. Leo.
Jeff
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Post by tws on Nov 26, 2007 19:28:28 GMT
What are they calling themselves today? Or is this name going to stick for a month or two? The Grand Orient of the United States is a part of a global network of Grand Lodges and lodges in amity with the Grand Orient of France. We have thousands of brothers around the world connected to us through this chain of union. The result of this union brings with it many wonderful things for the American Masons that are a part of it. Let me quote what Bro. Saul has already said on the BurningTaper. 1. Lodges will be able to choose from hundreds of Symbolic rituals. They no longer have to do the same ritual as everyone else. 2. Many of the old European Rites will be restored and available to any lodge to work. 3. Masonic education will be the norm in lodges, as opposed to the exception. 4. All Grand Orient lodges will be "Traditional Observance" because they are traditional in nature. 5. Lodges will be sovereign and the Grand Orient will serve them, not the other way around. 6. Racism is abolished. The Grand Orient is open to all men regardless of color. 7. The Grand Master cannot issue edicts or expel any brother. Masonic justice will be before a jury of your brothers. 8. Masons will be able to visit lodges around the globe full of brothers who seek the same level of enlightenment as they do. The name change merely reflects our commitment to our brothers around the world. Jeff Jeff, it was a joke. I couldn't resist. Don't touch the red button. don't touch the shiny, red, button!
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Post by tws on Nov 26, 2007 19:30:21 GMT
I'm attracted to shiny new objects. Must...touch!!
Help...
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Post by negredo on Nov 26, 2007 19:57:38 GMT
Yes just what US Freemasonry needs another Grand Lodge ? Does anyone ever think of working from the ground up ? OK its great for those who like the idea good get on with it and enjoy. But is it only me an Englishman that can see a constant rolling out of new US Lodges Grand or otherwise looks like desperation, UGLoA did not work so lets try this style see if that will work. All the rhetoric sound very good but has anyone given any thought to the damage that will be done with the arguments that will inevitably follow. From this angle it looks like someone is looking to create a civil war in US Freemasonry, like a Masonic Jihad. Wasn't this site the 'United Grand Lodge of America' site yesterday ? Its now morphed into Grand Oriente of America ? jeff the principles of the Grand lodges are all in line, but this methodology of creation is not, I'm sorry but it has to be said. Bill, It is pretty simple. The mainstream is in trouble, yet they want to do nothing about it. In fact they have accelerated it by gowing out of their way to alienate. Some of us wanted an alternative. The UGLA was version 1.0 and like any new endevour some things proved successful and others failures. Through extensive communication with the GOdF now we have that alternative. The GOdF has treated us like Brothers and men, we appreciate that. So Mote it Be, Brad Are you still a member in a regular jurisdiction? Are you now a member in the GO of the US?
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Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 26, 2007 20:46:17 GMT
Bill, It is pretty simple. The mainstream is in trouble, yet they want to do nothing about it. In fact they have accelerated it by gowing out of their way to alienate. Some of us wanted an alternative. The UGLA was version 1.0 and like any new endevour some things proved successful and others failures. Through extensive communication with the GOdF now we have that alternative. The GOdF has treated us like Brothers and men, we appreciate that. So Mote it Be, Brad Are you still a member in a regular jurisdiction? Are you now a member in the GO of the US? I am still on the rolls of the GL of CA. I am a GOdUSA member.
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Nov 26, 2007 20:50:36 GMT
I'm attracted to shiny new objects. Must...touch!!Help... K, Bro. TWS, be calm. The red button in your avatar is just fine. Go touch that one, K? And let us know how that works out
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Post by negredo on Nov 26, 2007 22:57:07 GMT
This may have been the case for the USA. Maybe. But what about the rest of the masonic world? Certainly it was not for race.
Please explain your claims.
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Post by negredo on Nov 26, 2007 22:58:30 GMT
Are you still a member in a regular jurisdiction? Are you now a member in the GO of the US? I am still on the rolls of the GL of CA. I am a GOdUSA member. Did you know you can be expelled from CA for this? Does the GOdUSA care if it admits expelled members? Even the GOdF will not admit those expelled from GLNF.
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 26, 2007 23:06:20 GMT
negredo,
Due to the growing number of unusual expulsions by the mainstream Grand Lodges (i.e. West Virginia, Georgia, Virginia, and Kentucky) the Grand Orient of the United States will be forced to evaluate the issues on a case by case basis. If brothers were expelled without due process, or the matter was related to racism, or they were being denied absolute freedom of conscience, the the Grand Orient will overrule any suspensions or expulsions in the name of brotherhood.
Jeff
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Post by negredo on Nov 26, 2007 23:10:59 GMT
But this would not be unusual: he would be expelled for being a member of an unrecognized jurisdiction. It would happen after a due process of a trial.
Because of the unusual vitriol I do not think he is suffering from being denied absolute freedome of conscience. Why not leave honorably instead of complaining so? Is there a fear of something coming out that is today hidden?
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Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 26, 2007 23:24:47 GMT
I am still on the rolls of the GL of CA. I am a GOdUSA member. Did you know you can be expelled from CA for this? Does the GOdUSA care if it admits expelled members? Even the GOdF will not admit those expelled from GLNF. The GOdF gives the lodge the choice. Brad
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Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 26, 2007 23:26:52 GMT
But this would not be unusual: he would be expelled for being a member of an unrecognized jurisdiction. It would happen after a due process of a trial. Because of the unusual vitriol I do not think he is suffering from being denied absolute freedome of conscience. Why not leave honorably instead of complaining so? Is there a fear of something coming out that is today hidden? I have chosen my course of actiona and I am quite happy with it. You can call it dishorable or you can call it a turkey dinner for all that it matters to me. But thanks for your concearn. It is nice to know you are there for me should I need you to be. That's brotherhood. God Bless, Brad www.grandorientusa.org
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 26, 2007 23:39:28 GMT
ngredo,
If a Mason were expelled for exploring other forms of Masonry the GOUSA would view it as a violation of freedom of conscience, and of freedom of association. The GOUSA allows everyone to come and go freely. It encourages them to explore, learn, and grow as a person. GOUSA Masons are not on a leash, and we view such restraints as not being in the spirit of Enlightenment philosophy or conducive to the spiritual growth and well-being of the individual.
We would consider it cruel and un-brotherly to expel a Mason for trying to improve himself and his understanding of the world by attempting to bar his right to freedom of association.
This type of universal thinking may seem foreign to many Masons, but it is at the very core of GOUSA ideology and thought.
I'm not posting this to be argumentative, but to be open with all of my brethren regarding the nature of the GOUSA.
Fraternally,
Jeff
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