imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jul 1, 2006 17:03:31 GMT
It's been suggested *I* (wow, when did I become so grown?) move the discussion on the sefirot into another thread. So I can repost what I posted in the other TOL thread but . . . Middle Pillar, you're right most folks do discuss it from the bottom up. Trouble is, most folks initially learn it from the top down. And when you start comparing Microcosm with Macrocosm, you find out there is no top or bottom and . . . serious Daffy Duck spasms Anyway, I *could* retake Russell's decision that I go first and repost what I think I see in Tiferet here (and remind Russell that, "Tag, you're it" and have him do Malkuth) but . . . I'm game to start anywhere. *MY* preference is to start in the Ein Sof. So, what d'ya all wanna do?
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jul 2, 2006 16:39:59 GMT
Sart a new thread called Ein, Ein Sof, Ein Sof Aur.
I think we ought to do them all together.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jul 3, 2006 6:08:54 GMT
So, what's wrong with this thread? And if you wanna start with Ein Sof, go for it. I'll follow. Promise ;D
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jul 3, 2006 19:23:31 GMT
So, what's wrong with this thread?
Well for one thing, it's called Tree of Life, the second ;-p. I'm thinking if anyone came onto the forum, they could use this discussion as a point of reference. So we ought to think of others and title our discussions logically.
And if you wanna start with Ein Sof, go for it. I'll follow. Promise
No, no. As Pinhead says, "Ladies first."
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Post by hollandr on Jul 4, 2006 1:04:01 GMT
Has anyone had any experience using or entering the Tunnels of Set? The Tunnels of Set are the paths on the Dark Tree.
I am not recommending entry, but am interested in any inner experiences
Cheers
Russell
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jul 4, 2006 2:14:42 GMT
K, there's the new name. Any better? And I already went first. AND took up the Sephirot Russell asked for. As for Set . . . I'm more of a Middle path type with a strong bias toward the right. As such, I'd like to have a firmer understanding about the right-handed path before I wander into the left. But I'm a lady who appreciates a meandering thread. ;D
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Post by hollandr on Jul 4, 2006 2:32:15 GMT
If we can apply the Tree to the human body, how about animals?
Cheers
Russell
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jul 4, 2006 22:49:03 GMT
What? Apply animals to the human body? That's called bestiality, and we don't do that here Try a bit further north ;D
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jul 5, 2006 5:29:30 GMT
A bit further north, eh? I'm in the SCA. And, uh, I know a few songs about that (tee-hee). So, Russell, does this mean you know utterly nothing about Yesod?
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Post by corab on Jul 5, 2006 11:32:21 GMT
Middle Pillar, you're right most folks do discuss it from the bottom up. Trouble is, most folks initially learn it from the top down. And when you start comparing Microcosm with Macrocosm, you find out there is no top or bottom and . . . serious Daffy Duck spasms Only just discovered this thread! I learnt it bottom up, so have a natural preference for starting in Malkuth. I guess I'm in the minority but: Malkuth first. Anyone ever done a 'tree walk'? Brilliant way of engaging with the Tree of Life. Cheers, Cora
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jul 5, 2006 16:08:14 GMT
Strange as it may seem, milady, I too am into the old SCA, thou diggest? ;D
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jul 6, 2006 4:07:23 GMT
Trojan Records? And I'm cool with Malkuth. And, uh, wow, if I've ever done a tree walk, I don't know about it. So, Cora, what is, to you, Malkuth?
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Post by corab on Jul 6, 2006 22:15:20 GMT
So, Cora, what is, to you, Malkuth? Malkuth, the Kingdom. It is both body and earth; the immediate and environmental physical realm. Its virtues are discrimination (the ability to tell the difference between things) and scepticism (being down-to-earth (...) and knowing when/what to sacrifice for the greater good). Its vices are avarice and inertia. Taken top-down, it is the final emanation; Creation. Taken bottom-up, it is the starting point; our current state from which we seek to find our way back to and re-unite with the Eternal. From my point of view that re-union means finding the divine within. Malkuth reminds me of the state of mind of the candidate for initiation. He is wholly in the dark as to what is to happen, yet he is willing to surrender control and jump into the great unknown, ready to ascend to Yesod, the Foundation. In a very real sense, Malkuth is the body, our own temple; its virtue being discriminate in what we eat, drink and do, and its vice being a lack of moderation without any concern for what we do to our body.
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Post by corab on Jul 6, 2006 22:23:50 GMT
And, uh, wow, if I've ever done a tree walk, I don't know about it. The Tree Walk was part of the final training before my Wiccan initiation. We had studied the Tree of Life intensely in the months running up to our initiation, but this was going to 'make it real' in a sense. There were 10 of us, and each of us was allocated a sephira. We were given a day to prepare for the Tree Walk -- each of us would have to find themselves a nice spot in the Garden (Chalice Wells, Glastonbury, UK) and represent 'their' sephira to the others, demonstrating what they would have to do in order to 'pass' through and ascend to the next sephira. I got Hod, and for some reason (mildly strange at the time in the context of being a candidate for initiation into Wicca) the story of Eve's Temptation sprang to mind. It stuck and never left me, really. Hod, the dawn of consciousness; a vision of splendour; "The Mutability of the Universe is the Splendour of thine Ingenuity". It put a wholly different light on the Temptation for me! In any case, a Tree Walk is a wonderful experience and a brilliant teaching tool. You really engage with the sephiroth and experience in a small way what is involved in ascending the Tree. Magical! Cora
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jul 7, 2006 1:20:08 GMT
Has anyone had any experience using or entering the Tunnels of Set? The Tunnels of Set are the paths on the Dark Tree.
Of course, as we proceed upon the Tree, in Heracleitus' words, the way up is also the way down: as we cover each of the Sefirot we are also reviewing in turn each of the Qlifot, or shadow-Sefirot. Each lesson and insight can be applied inversely and oppositely about the steps on the way down Jacob's Ladder, and act as an admonition to us. For as St Augustine has said, we could make of our sins a ladder to heaven, if only we would place them beneath our feet.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jul 7, 2006 2:15:18 GMT
Hmmmm. I have several Wiccan buds and they share lots and lots with me. But this they've never mentioned. Ooooooooh, I will have to ask. Thank you ;D
And I can see where Eve's story comes to mind in reference to Hod. For Hod, according to some, "desire" of the worldly part of "splendor". And Hod, "might", is female. Eve wanted that knowledge of Good and Evil as understood by the gods. In that context, the desire for knowledge really doesn't seem that bad. Indeed, some might argue the only bad in her desire was in her disobedience but one would also wonder why knowledge was withheld from her. Anyway . . .
Getting back to Malkuth . . . it is where we arrived when first we came and from where we look back to where we came from.
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Post by corab on Jul 11, 2006 20:56:45 GMT
Hmmmm. I have several Wiccan buds and they share lots and lots with me. But this they've never mentioned. Ooooooooh, I will have to ask. Thank you ;D Weird -- I thought I'd replied to this ... must be losing it ;D There's a huge variety within Wicca and not all of them place the same emphasis (if at all) on the QBL. Being of the Dion Fortune school my HP did teach the QBL from early on; likewise alchemy, which I think is pretty unusual in Wiccan traditions. Spot on -- it sure places an entirely different light (pun not intended) on the Serpent: Lucifer; the Light Bearer. Genesis identifies him as the source of all Evil, but believing neither in gods nor demons I rather think it was the Light of Consciousness that was demonised after primitive man opened his eyes and learnt to challenge dogma. Dogma is the enemy of human intelligence! Cora
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jul 13, 2006 3:34:55 GMT
My buds and I share lots of info, on symbols and other such. I also have friends of other faiths, including Astarte, some followers of the Greenman (I never have figured out a proper noun for them), Odinists (not to be confused with Astarte, though it does confuse me), Buddhists, B'Hai . . . and an odd Christian or two or six or ;D
I am, in this way, VERY fortunate\blessed.
Well, I am careful not to confuse the serpent with Lucifer or Satan. There's nothing in the text that indicates these are all the same critter. The serpents motivation is not at all clear. In fact, unlike Adam and Eve, God does not at all give the serpent a chance to explain itself, just hands down a punishment and takes away its limbs. If you'd like, I could paste Rashi's commentary in here. It is eye opening but I'm not sure how welcome this sort of Rabbinical tradition would be here so . . .
The text is clear very clear about something I find very interesting. God asks the woman why she did what she did. She fesses up, says "'The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." Which is pretty much what happened, according to the text. However, when God asks Adam why he did what he did, Adam says, "The woman whom Thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat."
In other words. Adam is saying, "The woman that YOU gave me . . . " He blames God. Oh . . . my.
Now having said all THAT, there's all this from Manly Hall's Secret Teachings of All Ages:
Ooooooooh my.
Indeed, this is very true. But there far many more in the world who prefer to be spoonfed by dogma than to exercise their human intelligence. Like others of the poor, they have and always will be among us. And I always wonder . . . why.
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Post by wayseer on Jul 13, 2006 3:48:25 GMT
Oh. No - poor Eve gets pasted yet again.
If you read the creation myth from right to left, rather than from left to right, it may well be that Eve proves to be the saviour of creation by exposing the creator as a malevolent type that puts her in a nice garden to hide all the stuff ups on the outside - a bit like Harry Truman getting skiddled by a falling spotlight from out of the blue.
Sorry - Did I derail the thread?
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jul 13, 2006 3:54:42 GMT
Oh, but I love a meandering thread ;D And besides, the consensus was to start in Malkuth. Adam and Eve are Malkuthish sorts. So, really, not derailed at all And actually, Eve comes off pretty good. She's disobedient but she owns up to what she does. Adam, however, tries to shove it off on God and so gets the greater portion of a real curse. Eve, however, gets told, "Sugar, ain't much gonna change for you." Do recall, though, these are Patriarchal writings. Eve is extremely fortunate to come off so well as she does
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