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LBRP
Oct 25, 2006 21:07:13 GMT
Post by middlepillar on Oct 25, 2006 21:07:13 GMT
staffs, As I have already made it clear I DO NOT practice LBRP. I simply wanted to know if anyone else did. Yes,I am a coward...I will not open a door to some unknown force by experimenting with a ritual that I cannot fully understand. Using Kabballah has opened my eyes but has not shut down precautionary measures that need to be taken when it comes to getting deeper into the subject. Rest assured, I know my limitations and I am learning but far from being a master. Who really can claim to ne one ? There are so many interpretations due to translating the exact Hebrew letters to our alphabet and because of the confusion this has caused, a lot of misinformed Kabbalists are attempting LBRP without true knowledge and its implicarions. Kind regards, Ariel Ariel It is good to see you are aware of all the possibilities and do not try anything without proper preparation. I do belong to an Order where the LBRP is performed at the beginning of every meeting, and as has been stated the pronounciation of the names is extremely important. It goes without saying that the person carrying out the ritual must be not only expert but also honest and trustworthy! I do know a man who got so desperate with his life he tried invoking assistance and he is now locked up in a sanitorium, a really sad sight. It is good to be interested, and always remember there is lots to learn. Good luck.
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LBRP
Oct 26, 2006 1:15:34 GMT
Post by maat on Oct 26, 2006 1:15:34 GMT
Russell - I think you are either amazing brave or incredibly whatever.... breathing in black stuff like that. What happens to the entity exactly? Does your actions help or hinder his progress? Makes me wonder about free will in the afterlife... had not thought of that one before.
Maybe we should introduce you to MP's unfortunate fellow. Poor soul - can you not, as a group, send help MP? After all, not one will be lost.
Excuse my ignorance in these matters.
Maat
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LBRP
Oct 26, 2006 3:02:31 GMT
Post by hollandr on Oct 26, 2006 3:02:31 GMT
>I think you are either amazing brave or incredibly whatever.... breathing in black stuff like that.
well, I have a certain amount of experience ascending Jacob's Ladder (rising on the planes) so was able to assess the calibre of the entity in advance of taking action
>What happens to the entity exactly?
The entity lost body mass (astral energy) until it was of no consequence. The entity was an elemental with its intelligence primarily from the astral substance
>Does your actions help or hinder his progress?
It was only a "pseudopod" from a larger cloud of astral substance being used by a bunch of gnome-like beings so it had no progress other than its substance being refined by use by a higher entity
>Makes me wonder about free will in the afterlife... had not thought of that one before.
I suspect that you will find that free will is more a human experience than an elemental experience.
Nevertheless, in the afterlife it is common to find humans who are stuck in the astral plane - unable to or ignorant of the need to radiate light as the means of transition.
Cheers
Russell
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LBRP
Oct 26, 2006 5:47:45 GMT
Post by maat on Oct 26, 2006 5:47:45 GMT
Thanks for that explanation Russell. It does tie in with lots that I have read. You have just reminded me of why I must persevere throughout the trials of this earthly life and be a very, very good girl I am a lily livered chicken at heart. ;D Maat
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LBRP
Oct 26, 2006 13:18:39 GMT
Post by Bettendorf on Oct 26, 2006 13:18:39 GMT
I perform first the Qabalistic Cross then the LIRP every morning, just performed it a few minutes ago, and perform the LBRP every night before bed. You can witness a video of the Qabalistic Cross then the LBRP here: youtube.com/watch?v=ynJKa8fDQKcTo banish, you begin by tracing the pentagram from the bottom left upwards. To invoke you start from top left and trace downwards. You dont have to do it physically. It is fine and sometimes more effective if you imagine yourself doing it while lying on your back in a meditative state. “Those who regard this ritual as a mere device to invoke or banish spirits are unworthy to possess it. Properly understood, it is the Medicine of metals and the Stone of the Wise." --Aleister Crowley With that in mind, I dont see why all the superstition about it.
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LBRP
Oct 26, 2006 18:28:17 GMT
Post by matt on Oct 26, 2006 18:28:17 GMT
The LBRP is not a ritual that anyone should be scared of. The first several months of practice are merely to get the mechanics of the ritual down. At first, the main focus of the ritual is to get used to moving through it so you dont have to stop and think about what the next move is.
It isnt until the symbolism of the ritual has been studied that the ritual begins to take on meaning. The LBRP deals primarily with self, as opposed to outside forces; although the latter can be influenced.
After your circle has been cast, the symbols can be used to banish thoughts merely by focusing on them. When an unwanted thought comes to mind, just focus on one of the symbols surrounding you. By doing so, your mind loses the unwanted thought.
By no means am I implying that these are the only uses of the LBRP.
An exercise that W.E. Butler taught to his students leads right into the LBRP. The first step is to visualize yourself standing in the center of a cylinder of blue light. That is, a wall of light circling around you. Any time an unwanted thought enters your mind during meditation or contemplation simply will the thought outside the wall of light. It was only after a student had practiced this for several months that he went on to add more symbolism to the ritual.
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LBRP
Oct 26, 2006 22:44:02 GMT
Post by ariel on Oct 26, 2006 22:44:02 GMT
I watched the video and wondered how many who know very little of LBRP might attempt this ritual. As I pointed out it is best to be CAUTIOUS. A. Crawley might appeal to certain "sects" but his reputation does carry negative connotations and if he were to be thought as a Freemason magician who is fondly remembered by Masons then this will add more fuel to the anti-Masonic brigade.
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LBRP
Oct 27, 2006 0:49:09 GMT
Post by maat on Oct 27, 2006 0:49:09 GMT
"It seems that Crowley caused quite a stir while he was there (Boleskine House). If his writings are to be believed, his experiments in magic were not completely successful and resulted in some disturbing phenomena that was to send one of his housemaids mad, and lead to the house becoming haunted by strange entities." www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/scotland/invernesshire/inverness_7.htmlMy opinion only - but I feel quite uneasy with posters giving details of rituals on the Forum. We do have young, inexperienced and curious readers I am sure. If they must let them seek them out elsewhere. I have witnessed enough to know inexperience can lead to trouble. Maat
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LBRP
Oct 27, 2006 4:23:54 GMT
Post by Bettendorf on Oct 27, 2006 4:23:54 GMT
I understand where you two are coming from, ariel and Maat. Unfortunately, (and maybe even fortunately in some instances), we as Freemasons, know all too well how the media likes to have fun with any thing of our sort, and Aleister Crowley has no escape with that. His Masonic career, albeit ir-regular, coupled with his fame as one of the most well known Occultists in the last 20 centuries makes his badgering even worse. We know from experience how the media does not always get the facts correct, and how they love to make the most out of insignificant intrigues.
The debate of Aleister Crowley, his genuinness and success as a Magickian and Occultist is one that has had to much dirt kicked upon it over the last few decades. The man and Brother, was an exemplary character of a seeker, atleast to my personal constitution; whether Im right or wrong, succesful or not, as long as I can experience, experiment and learn from, thus seek.
Everyone has the capability of being Wardens unto themselves, we can give them our admonitions, but they are going to be inexperienced until they actually take the first initiative into the unknown, to become experienced through doing. We were all inexperienced once, at the threshold of the unknown, the most blatant allusion brings notice to our being poor blind candidates at the doors of Freemasonry. What happens after that only the doers know.
And anways Maat, even though we may all be precocious in our own ways, we are all still young and inexperienced with many things. Pass the Light!
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LBRP
Oct 27, 2006 6:47:04 GMT
Post by maat on Oct 27, 2006 6:47:04 GMT
Point taken, Bettendorf.
I am a fan of some fairly well known people who have been blasted from all sides. Undeservedly so in my opinion.
My gut feeling still tells me to be cautious... proceed slowly and surely and don't dabble without a teacher to show the way.
You sound like might lead a very interesting life...
Maat
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LBRP
Oct 29, 2006 21:54:18 GMT
Post by sororaster93 on Oct 29, 2006 21:54:18 GMT
"Does any member perform this at night and/or morning ? If so, have you had problems with the interpretations ? What may be considered to be the right practice may,infact, be the wrong one !"
It is my opinion that the LBRP is a ritual designed for a beginner in ritual magick and that it should therefore be performed in both the morning (LIRP) and the evening (LBRP). It is my opinion that anyone who advises you against doing it misunderstands the ritual.
Secondly, you do not need to fully understand a ritual in order to be able to perform it. The more you know... the more you realise you don't know. Indeed, after having performed some rituals myself for some six years (the LBRP being one of them), you find that you always have something more to learn. Rituals shall be half known and half concealed - thats the point. You don't need to fully understand. In fact, look at it from a perspective of the Tree of Life - if you have the Hod and not the Netzach then you have no balance. Think about where this ritual is performed on the Tree of Life. If you don't know then look it up.
I suggest that you read a book called "The Middle Pillar" by Regardie. This forum is not the place for me to write a 20,000 word dissertation on the symbolism. But you'll find much of it in this book. This tells you a lot about how to perform it aswell as the best pronunciations.
In fact, as you will see from learning about the symbolism, this ritual incorporates the fundamentals of ritual magick. If you don't practice this ritual, you will never acquire vital skills. I was told when I started that this is the like shouting "Here I am, come and get me!" on the astral plane. It'll just make your aura glow a lot more. If you are worried by this, then use both the LBRH and the Rose Cross Ritual to follow.
As already stated:
“Those who regard this ritual as a mere device to invoke or banish spirits are unworthy to possess it. Properly understood, it is the Medicine of metals and the Stone of the Wise." --Aleister Crowley
I also want to reply to this quote:
"A. Crawley might appeal to certain "sects" but his reputation does carry negative connotations and if he were to be thought as a Freemason magician who is fondly remembered by Masons then this will add more fuel to the anti-Masonic brigade".
It is now "Crawley". IT IS CROWLEY. If you are going to make such a bold statement please get the spelling right.
Who cares if someone wants to be anti-masonic? I care about my own Will, I do not care if someone wants to judge me.
Secondly, those that follow the works of Aleister Crowley are not those in "sects". None of the initiatory groups or the EGC are "sects". Have you ever been to a Gnostic Mass? Perhaps you should before you cast such judgements.
Thirdly, his reputation is one of the best magicians to have lived. I care not that he had many women or took drugs. If that was his Will then who am I to cast judgement? Who are you to? Thelema, as a religion, cannot in any way have "negative connotations". Perhaps you might like to study the links between organisations like the OTO and the Masons before you cast more judgement.
The above quote is incredibly narrow minded. Also, CROWLEY has little to do with the LBRP anyway. The LBRP is a fundamental ritual.
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LBRP
Oct 30, 2006 0:27:23 GMT
Post by maat on Oct 30, 2006 0:27:23 GMT
It is now "Crawley". IT IS CROWLEY. If you are going to make such a bold statement please get the spelling right. I think you just got rapped on the knuckles Sororaster93. Please be gentle with us - we are earnest seekers. Maat
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LBRP
Oct 30, 2006 1:04:38 GMT
Post by ariel on Oct 30, 2006 1:04:38 GMT
1: I am not on this site to cast judgements. 2: As for a spelling mistake of a surname taken to mean a "bold statement" is illogical. 3: I voiced my opinion concerning caution lest the ritual be undertaken by those who are not adept and I agree with Maat about young impressional minds, reading something on this site that they might try to "emulate" (even those who have never heard of A.C) simply because a video is made available to them . 4: Many may blame the Fraternal Britherhood for showing a ritual that they may misinterpret as entirely Masonic. Maybe you do not care about how FM is depicted, but that does not mean we have to associate the Black Arts and A.C magical powers simply to gratify your free Will at our cost. 5: There are "sects" who practice magic and who rate A.C as the "Great Magician" and know very little of the Kaballah and the true natue of the LBRP ritual....enough to make them think that this is a form of magic. 6: I do not need to go to a Gnostic Mass to form an opinion and it is my preogative to voice it as much as it is yours to critize it. 7: I am on this site to boaded my mind and have taken your view on board so that means I am not narrow minded. Kind regards, Ariel
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LBRP
Oct 30, 2006 8:57:55 GMT
Post by taylorsman on Oct 30, 2006 8:57:55 GMT
I thought it was spelt Zoroaster or even Zarathustra if someone wants to be pedantic about names? I have also seen Crowley spelt Crawley like the town in Sussex but that is unusual , Crowley being the normal spelling of that man's name. In any event , the points raised by Ariel neither rise nor fall on the spelling.
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LBRP
Oct 31, 2006 0:25:44 GMT
Post by maat on Oct 31, 2006 0:25:44 GMT
I thought it was spelt Zoroaster or even Zarathustra if someone wants to be pedantic about names? I think you might find that Soror in this name refers to a sister, Steve. Words are sss-words that can divide us. Lets make our weapon Humour - less mess (unless you wet your pants laughing ;D) Maat
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LBRP
Oct 31, 2006 12:18:51 GMT
Post by sororaster93 on Oct 31, 2006 12:18:51 GMT
I thought it was spelt Zoroaster or even Zarathustra if someone wants to be pedantic about names? I have also seen Crowley spelt Crawley like the town in Sussex but that is unusual , Crowley being the normal spelling of that man's name. In any event , the points raised by Ariel neither rise nor fall on the spelling. I most certainly am not being pedantic. If people are discussing a matter such as this, I do not think it's expecting too much to get spellings correct. If you are going to critique something and you want to be taken seriously, then you need to learn to spell. As for normal spellings. Crowley refers to himself as Crowley. In Liber 15 as a Gnostic Saint it is spelt Crowley. As for my own username. Clearly you know very little. If you are going to critique my point of view then my username is neither here nor there. It is Soror Aster with the "e" being Greek, but that is not accepted by this online system.
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LBRP
Oct 31, 2006 12:38:47 GMT
Post by sororaster93 on Oct 31, 2006 12:38:47 GMT
1: I am not on this site to cast judgements. 2: As for a spelling mistake of a surname taken to mean a "bold statement" is illogical. 3: I voiced my opinion concerning caution lest the ritual be undertaken by those who are not adept and I agree with Maat about young impressional minds, reading something on this site that they might try to "emulate" (even those who have never heard of A.C) simply because a video is made available to them . 4: Many may blame the Fraternal Britherhood for showing a ritual that they may misinterpret as entirely Masonic. Maybe you do not care about how FM is depicted, but that does not mean we have to associate the Black Arts and A.C magical powers simply to gratify your free Will at our cost. 5: There are "sects" who practice magic and who rate A.C as the "Great Magician" and know very little of the Kaballah and the true natue of the LBRP ritual....enough to make them think that this is a form of magic. 6: I do not need to go to a Gnostic Mass to form an opinion and it is my preogative to voice it as much as it is yours to critize it. 7: I am on this site to boaded my mind and have taken your view on board so that means I am not narrow minded. Kind regards, Ariel I do not have a problem with your spelling per se. I am merely taking offence with your negative statements, when you cannot spell Crowley correctly. Indeed, people on this site may well be 'beginners'. Therefore, if you are going to make a statement please engage in academic debate if you are going to make such bold statements. You do not need to be an Adept to perform an LBRP. As I said - see where the ritual takes place with regards to the Tree of Life. It is not at Tiphareth. Therefore your comments hold no weight (although admittedly there is 5=6 symbolism). Study it. Furthermore, the LBRP is not a 'Thelemic' Ritual. The equivalent is the Star Ruby. The LBRP is a 'beginners' ritual used in varying forms of ceremonial magick/ritual magick/thelema/anything. Tell me then, if you do not perform this ritual until you are the degree of an adept. How does one learn to become an adept? I come back to this: "Maybe you do not care about how FM is depicted, but that does not mean we have to associate the Black Arts and A.C magical powers simply to gratify your free Will at our cost."Utter rubbish. Refer to above - the LBRP has nothing to do with AC formally. Black arts has nothing to do with the LBRP or AC. Its not "free Will" - its "true Will". (Please refer to Liber Al) Black Magick is performing magick not in confirmity with Will. So your statement holds no weight. "I do not need to go to a Gnostic Mass to form an opinion and it is my preogative to voice it as much as it is yours to critize it." I cannot agree more - it is your PREROGATIVE. I am saying that you wish to learn then engage in debate. I am asking you to merely support your statements with evidence and fact. :-) Also, I am here to learn....
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LBRP
Oct 31, 2006 13:01:07 GMT
Post by sororaster93 on Oct 31, 2006 13:01:07 GMT
My above post is rather harsh on reflection. True, but not very kindly articulated.
What I am saying is that I have been doing the LBRP for many years and I find it to be a truly inspiring and beautiful ritual. I think that you do need to be wary of jumping in at the deep end, but that with a beginners level of knowledge it can be performed well. The ritual itself cannot actually harm you. It is amongst other things a banishing afterall.
I often meet with people who are utter novices (not that I myself am the voice of experience) and I would suggest this ritual to them for years of study. In fact, the LBRP in itself masters all competencies of ritual magick and can be used to aid your goals in diverse ways.
Therefore, I am asking those of you here to explain why you would not suggest it to a beginner. I am not saying that your view is not valid - I am asking you to back up opinion with substance.
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LBRP
Oct 31, 2006 15:06:50 GMT
Post by ariel on Oct 31, 2006 15:06:50 GMT
It would be a little pointless for me to continue the subject if my debating skills (or lack of) cannot be put to the test. I have been admonished, harshly or not, to know when to stand down and leave those better qualified in logical reasoning to take the "argument" further .
Kind regards, Ariel
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LBRP
Oct 31, 2006 18:55:51 GMT
Post by matt on Oct 31, 2006 18:55:51 GMT
Often we forget that we are all brothers and come to these forums to learn from eachother. I forget from time to time and let my ego rise to the occasion. During those moments of weakness I never learn anything. If we keep in mind that this is to be a learning experience and a place to enjoy the conversation of our bretheren, I dont see where debating skills would be necessary. I think I read Giovanni one time say that in his lodge they are not allowed to debate anything. It was more of a brainstorm where one brother would say "I think this" and then another would say "I think that". All of this to encourage everyone to continue this thread. I believe the LBRP to be extremely useful and there is still much information that has not been touched. There's no sense in backing out because you cant debate it. Learning is about asking questions, not debating. One thing I find interesting is the many different versions of the LBRP that are circulating out there. Not everyone does it as humorously as the guy in the video Pax et LVX, matt
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