|
Post by ingo on May 14, 2006 14:29:25 GMT
Cookie We agree that DVC is fiction. But it is a fact that both men and women were part of the group that came along with the prophet Jesus through old Israel. And it is a historical fact that all communities founded by the "apostole" Paul were lead, supported, often hosted and financed by women, his first and early believers! We do not have to look for women rights which might have been as liberal as in todays Taliban countries. But it is all the same with new ideologies and religions: people join because they seek for emanzipation, for a future. I often wondered why Paul was named "apostole" - he did not wander around with the "Lord" as well. We should not forget that, emanzipation of human beings is one pillar of freemasonry too. Ever read Kant?
|
|
|
Post by ingo on May 14, 2006 14:38:38 GMT
Cookie If you compare new testament happenings like the "Lazarus awakening" etc. with rituals of old egypt you will see a lot of similarities. I do not know if you are a mason. But a MM might feel quite comfortable when he reads that.
Historians found more than 180 similarities BTW. What a wonder - the geographic distance is low and even the history of King Solomon tells us that he married a duaghter of a Pharao who brought their own religion, priests and rituals with her. And in egypt you had osiris AND isis. Maybe the new testament tells us about the struggles between different opinions where the jewish religion had to go.
The DVC is too simple and - yes - it follows political correctness, but I would not see the end of the world coming if women should take more pride out of this. ;D
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on May 14, 2006 14:50:07 GMT
Well i've booked tickets to go and see it friday night, the day it's released ;D Our local cinema does not as yet provide for advanced booking - if they did I'd already have tickets. So it going to be a question of first come first served. And as it's the talk of the town (being mentioned even from the pulpit in some places) I imagine it will attract a huge crowds. Even those who haven't read the book can't wait to see it Can't blame people for being curious.
|
|
|
Post by rza008 on May 14, 2006 23:45:22 GMT
Cookie We agree that DVC is fiction. But it is a fact that both men and women were part of the group that came along with the prophet Jesus through old Israel. And it is a historical fact that all communities founded by the "apostole" Paul were lead, supported, often hosted and financed by women, his first and early believers! We do not have to look for women rights which might have been as liberal as in todays Taliban countries. But it is all the same with new ideologies and religions: people join because they seek for emanzipation, for a future. I often wondered why Paul was named "apostole" - he did not wander around with the "Lord" as well. We should not forget that, emanzipation of human beings is one pillar of freemasonry too. Ever read Kant? I study Immanuel Kant at uni, i've heard rumours that he was a Freemason?? But i'm not sure, i'm not a massive fan of his catagorical impreative, but his synthetic a priori reasoning is brilliant. He was a true genius.
|
|
|
Post by ingo on May 15, 2006 13:16:54 GMT
No, no Kant was not a freemason, but his teachings influenced many freemasons and philosophers too.
|
|
|
Post by forester on May 16, 2006 7:05:39 GMT
The Travelling Trowels will be off to the Cinema - Just to see what all the fuss is about
|
|
|
Post by mrmason on May 17, 2006 6:43:43 GMT
Hi Stewart, I'm not for one minute going to disagree with you regarding your own explanation of what is "hidden secrets". Each to their own as far as I'm concerned. My whole point is the fact that none of the actual history of ths StClairs, Rosslyn etc, fits in with the so-called linking of the Freemasons and the Templars. While I beleive that you are talking on a spiritual basis , I prefer to look at this subject from a historical side of things, which is why I won't deny what you say. But to use a fabricated book in order to boost membership is IMHO completely wrong. My opinion is that if we went down the line of the Dan Brown book then we are misleading new members into believing something that we don't teach in our order. If, once they are "entered" and wish to believe what they want, then fine, but lets not con them into some false belief or teachings which those who are members know, is never actualy taught at our meetings.
Those who do use the book to boost membership is, IMHO, jumping on the already overloaded bandwagon, without the knowledge of the true history of the Craft, Stclairs, Templars etc. I certainly am no expert in these matters but have done enough research to "hold my own" in a conversation.
As for William StClair in 1736 selling his estate, yes he did sell it for money, and from that time onwards the Stclair/Sinclair family were succeeded not by a direct male lineage of the family tree but through the female side of the family. William in 1778 when he died was succeeded by his only surviving daughter Sarah who married a Wedderburn. His other 6 children 3 boys and 3 girls all died young. She(Sarah), passed the title on to her son who, when he died, passed it onto his nephew on his sisters side of the family. This is where the name Erskine comes into play in their title. So now we have a concoction of Wedderburn, Erskin and the taken name of StClair. The title now of the Earl of Rosslyn was first granted in 1801 to Alexander Wedderburn son of Sarah, William's daughter.
My whole point in this longwinded story is that those who believe in a mysterious story of the chapel/ sinclair family etc need to find out more of the true history of the whole subject. The Rosslyn family today is not the same lineage and "character" as it was all those years ago. The chapel has been handed down through 2 married links to the family which again IMHO takes away from the whole family,guarded, secret that is supposed to be kept there. There is, IMHO, no mystery, as the facts speak for themselves.
|
|
|
Post by Siontific on May 17, 2006 17:22:47 GMT
I heard on the radio today that following a poll where 59% of respondants felt the Catholic church was hiding the truth concerning the bible and the history of Jesus, etc, etc, that the church was asking for a notice to appear before the film was shown stating that it was only a story.
Bit like the pot calling the kettle black, really!
|
|
|
Post by rbartlett on May 17, 2006 21:57:35 GMT
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on May 17, 2006 22:25:54 GMT
Thanks Richard. One thing to bare in mind and that is this movie has so much hype going for it no amount of bad publicity will put people off seeing it. Two million people bought the book and you can bet your bottom dollar most will go see the movie. And lets not forget the many other millions who will go simply because they were told not to.
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on May 17, 2006 22:40:05 GMT
Well I will certainly be going and just let anyone tell me I must not!
I will post my observations on the film and it closeness to the book when I have seen it. I never read film reviews as in this as in most things I prefer to make up my own mind.
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on May 18, 2006 13:56:09 GMT
The movie will shown here from tomorrow (Friday) night - 8pm - but won't be shown in UK until midnight. Why is this? Steve said: Looking forward to those observations. I'll be expressing a few of my own too. Agree fully. It's always best to make up ones own mind, otherwise we simply allow others to decide for us. No always a good thing
|
|
|
Post by maat on May 19, 2006 0:24:10 GMT
I rather thought you might appreciate this slant on The Da Vinci Code. Cinematic Su doku pinpoints our ills This ripping yarn is better approached as a detective thriller, somewhat mechanical, somewhat emaciated in characterisation, but filled with twists and turns that keep you guessing until you grow tired of the game. In that sense, The Da Vinci Code is a sort of cinematic Su doku. The questions of theology for me are more about the realisation that the world is lacking in an appreciation of human life - seen in the ill-treatment of the body and the demeaning of the feminine. The world in the film is characterised as "the church" just as in The Verdict and others like it. It is simply turned into an institution in the film because that becomes a useful whiteboard on which to play out larger uncertainties that are in the world. One can understand how Dan Brown's book and Ron Howard's faithful adaptation have gained such attraction. They have managed to name a malaise that runs deep through society at large - a devaluing of a human life in the world masked under the spin of service of a higher, but ultimately self serving, cause.The critic is Rev Dr Alan Cadwallader, who is a lecturer in New Testament Studies at Flinders University School of Theology and the Adelaide College of Divinity.Maat
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on May 20, 2006 11:57:54 GMT
Thanks Maat. Could be worth check out.
After all my talk about going to see this movie on opening night I find that I won't after all be able to see it until sometime after the week-end. Anybody seen it yet?
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on May 20, 2006 14:51:48 GMT
I have just uploaded 2 Lectures from the Teaching Company on the Da Vinci Code and its discrepancies. You might find them interesting. Gives an alternative view. www.lodgeroomuk.net/mediamasonica/davinci.html But if you want to enjoy the film first, then listen. Its up to you.
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on May 20, 2006 15:03:05 GMT
I have read most of the debunkers, the DaVinci Cod being one I enjoyed immensely, so I would doubt very much if either of these lectures would have much to add. But even so I will have a read. Thanks Bill.
Isn't it amazing the amount of books, DVDs, TV programs and lectures that have come along, for or against, on the strength of one book.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on May 20, 2006 16:18:18 GMT
I have read most of the debunkers, the DaVinci Cod being one I enjoyed immensely, so I would doubt very much if either of these lectures would have much to add. But even so I will have a read. Thanks Bill. Isn't it amazing the amount of books, DVDs, TV programs and lectures that have come along, for or against, on the strength of one book. They are audio lectures sorry I forget to mention that.
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on May 20, 2006 16:26:04 GMT
Better still Bill. Mean I can listen to them as I drive!
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on May 20, 2006 16:42:31 GMT
Don't worry. Having read the book and before that HBHG, I will see the film and make up my own mind as I do with 100% of matters in this life.
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on May 20, 2006 16:53:28 GMT
Don't worry. Having read the book and before that HBHG, I will see the film and make up my own mind as I do with 100% of matters in this life. Couldn't agree more. My sister, a Born Again Christian, says she will not go. Why? Because her pastor says not to, that's why. Crazy.
|
|