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Post by Yoki on Feb 10, 2005 4:07:27 GMT
It occurred to me that communication between individuals on the Internet could be similar to communication between souls that have no physical body. Now before confusion sets in let me explain. When we communicate over the net we connect to each other with out the cues given by body language and without the judgement that is driven both consciously or unconsciously by sight. Naturally there is greater room for deception over the net, yet I find personalties shine through. In fact I would say there is a better chance for individuals to learn about each other over the net,than there is on a face to face bases,for the very reasons that we are not hampered by our bodies. Something else that happens on a face to face bases and could even happen while communicating over the net is the reading of each others energy, this along with telepathic communication could be how we talk out of body. So my hypotheses is because we communicate in a bodiless way over the net our true self's more readily speaks up.
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bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Feb 10, 2005 7:51:34 GMT
I do kind of agree with you Yoki. Because we don't have the opportunity to make judgements on a person based on their physical appearance, we accept them from the words that spring from their fingertips - and in so doing interpret those words as being projections of their personality.
From the limited experience I have had of meeting forum members face to face I can say that the forum personality is a fair reflection of the individual.
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 10, 2005 9:14:24 GMT
An interesting idea Yoki.
On a more mundane level I find it a lot easier to carry out any contentious business over the Internet, by e-mail, logging onto a website, or alternatively sending a fax or letter if speed of response is not critical, rather than by phone call or worst case face to face. I am one of those people who actually prefer the automated response on a phone "For balance enquiries press 1 followed by #" and do NOT want to speak to a real person at all! (unlike the TV Advert).
I do not like "one on ones" and in a work situation, especially if any conflict or contention is present, I will far sooner send an e-mail rather than pick up a phone.
I suppose this is a question of psychological security, of seizing the high ground so to speak. The e-mail, fax, letter are both buffered and unidirectional. The recipient is neuturalised, they have to read your statement, from your side, you are not subjected to their retorts, contradictions, counter arguments until they then respond in like manner. One is also able to keep a record of what has been stated. A phone call or face to face is bidirectional and leaves one open to being cut off in mid argument, hectoring, intimidation, hostile body language. As an example I would never think of applying for a Bank Loan face to face across a desk , over over the phone, but am quite at ease doing so over the Internet.
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Post by Trinityman on Feb 10, 2005 10:37:36 GMT
Yoki You're absolutely right. I can tell you this is true from personal experience as I met my wife on the Internet. We were in love before we physically met and without the false starts that can arise from the physical cues that you mention. Somtimes I think everyone should meet this way
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 10, 2005 11:07:18 GMT
This reminds me of a film I saw in the 1960s. The story was that two US soldiers were blinded in the war and end up in the same hospital. They make great friends with each other and all goes well until the white soldier makes a derogatory remark about "Ni**ers" to use the word then in common speech about Afro-Americans. Oh dear, he could NOT see that his buddy was indeed black!
Sometimes it is better NOT to see the person on the other side as prejudices cannot then come into play. I often wonder of it would be possible to recruit someone for a job on an Internet CV and possibly if needed a test of their knowledge of the subject, wihout actually meeting them in a face to face Interview (often a shambolic performance anyway for both sides) until they have been offered and accepted the job? Would this be a better and fairer way to do so than seeing them in the flesh?
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Post by leonardo on Feb 10, 2005 12:36:11 GMT
Wonderful topic. Highly interesting, thought-provoking posts from everyone.
Communicating via the Internet is certainly less complicated and allows a much better environment (in very many respects) for someone's personality to shine through. Examples by Steve and others clearly demonstrate that this is the case.
Allow me to illustrate the point even further.
To many, who've seen my photo, it immediately becomes very obvious that I am a rather large, somewhat menacing looking individual. In fact, I've even been described as someone you wouldn't like to meet in a dark alley!
However the ability to communicate with people via this medium has allowed me the opportunity to present myself as I believe I truly am. Our eyes unfortunately give far too much opportunity to form preconceived ideas about how a person should or should not behave by the way they look.
Perhaps it is only when we have evolved beyond the physical we will truly be at peace with each other.
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bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Feb 10, 2005 12:43:07 GMT
You are quite an interesting study in respet of this topic Leo.
When you first burst onto the masonic forum scene in another place you're posts suggested very different motives from what eventually came through. Most people treated you with suspicion, some were downright hostile - I will admit to being one of the ones who wasn't sure of your motives at first. I'll also admit to begin very happy at having those initial suspicions and concerns kicked well and truley into touch!
I look forward to the day when we meet face to face, from what has been revealed of you on the forums over the last 9 months or so I think it would be a good experience.
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Post by munkholt on Feb 10, 2005 13:29:07 GMT
Very interesting! Got me thinking, and I can't cover it all right now, but here's a start: Words fom a boundary in many ways as real as a physical one. I probably use strange phrasing, because Danish grammar is different from English, and I use the wrong words or idioms because I've misunderstood them, or whatever. It is my feeling that I often come across as more convoluted than I actually am. You also seem to be saying that our bodies hamper a truthful representation of ourselves (Yoki: "because we communicate in a bodiless way over the net our true self's more readily speaks up"). But in a sense my avatar is a more truthful image or communication of who I (think I) am (=head in the clouds, arrogant attitude ... ) than what comes across in my written words (at least in English). I believe that our bodies, like them or not, are an integral part of "true self". Now, I'm not ruling out some incorporeal form of communication that might be closer to the intended meaning, but like I said, that would mean cutting the words out of the equation as well as the body.
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Post by leonardo on Feb 10, 2005 16:01:24 GMT
Bod,
Thank you very much for those comments.
My of understanding so far of Freemasonry and of those directly involved in it, has come almost exclusively from the written word; from the many books I've read on the subject and from pondering excitedly over the countless, wonderful posts available to everyone on fora such as this. The Internet is an incredibly wonderful source of information. Mind you, I've certainly learned to be more discerning and cautious about what it is I actually read from it - what goes in, comes out, etc etc .
Reading contributions made by your good self, however, and other distinguished members of this forum, have helped me enormously to gain more insight and appreciation for the Craft as a whole. On another level, once again via this media, I've learned to have more respect for the individual and the many different personalities; each with their own unique qualities and perspective. All of which helped to make the forum community what it is.
What a poorer world it would be for me, and presumably for others in similar circumstances, if I did not have this opportunity to become acquainted with good people like yourself since joining this wonderful community of like-minded individuals on the Internet.
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Post by middlepillar on Feb 10, 2005 16:52:09 GMT
I read this Post before anyone had answered (About 7.30) I found it immediately touched a nerve and I was going to reply but something held me back. I am glad I did I dont know if the thread has gone in the direction Yoki thought it would but some of the answers have been very interesting.
I have always believed that unattached souls would be on a different plane than the physical World we live in, and most of me believes it is a plane that comes after out Worldly Life, so I do think that you have a point Yoki but perhaps by the time the Soul gets that far we would not need to communicate in the way we think about communicating now?
I do believe we pick up on each others personalities in a much 'cleaner' way than having the pollutant of vision and hearing involved. I suppose most people would say that we would all agree being members of an internet forum!
But for myself even though some have posted thier photos on the Pictures Link I have built up a mental picture of what each of the members are like both in character and in looks, and as I seem to be meeting up with some of you over the next few weeks/months it will be interesting to see how things turn out. Will our body language tie in with what I have built up in my mind?
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Michael
Member
... as you have passed through the ceremony of your initiation...
Posts: 326
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Post by Michael on Feb 10, 2005 21:44:21 GMT
Yokie, I think you may well be right, but people do seem to use a sort of short hand in emails (and texts) and that can often cause confusion and misunderstanding. Leo, the reason that people might find you big and scary is... Well your just big and scary ;D
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Post by leonardo on Feb 10, 2005 21:58:36 GMT
Leo, the reason that people might find you big and scary is... Well your just big and scary ;D Mick, you forgot "ugly"
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Feb 11, 2005 4:50:08 GMT
Yet another benefit of this form of communication is that HERE there is no bias.
Those of you I have met -on the net- are happy to share viewpoints and opinions, whenever it suits, whereas I am prevented from such daily life meetings due to not being permitted to attend/visit the malecraft fraternity.
This sharing of ideas is the truly ACTIVE principle in Freemasonry, but I do feel these fora help to break down the barriers.
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