Level
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Posts: 274
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Post by Level on Feb 15, 2005 18:27:27 GMT
so this one of the problems with masonic history as well as other history. It gets all clouded up with side issues. Atlantean colonies in Scotland ? I would like to enquire as to sources of evidence for this. I would like to if 'visions' are acceptable proof of such things. Alien breeding projects can these be put into a time line of some sort.
I dont mind if this is wiped over to Esoteric instead. Im not sceptical or critical of such things, in fact i have a bit of a history with such things but found the constent vagueness distructive to the cause. I dont if their is anyone on here aware of Milton language patterns but there are parallels to Ambiguos language being used in certain claims to the esoteric world. Im not saying i agree or disagree haowever there are problems casting the net so far when the word Scotland and history is mentioned.
So what happened to the KT when they dissolved in England and why didnt any Lodges form independantly of Scotland?
Are there any secrets , were there any secrets, or is it all a network marketing scheme from the 18th century? A very clever one at that, if so , what is Masonry funding ?
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Post by whistler on Feb 15, 2005 18:38:03 GMT
Are "Visions" acceptable.... Interesting many millions of people accept "visions" I can't think of a religion that doesn't have visions in their history, Look at John Smith - and the Mormons.. The question is the interpretation.
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Post by whistler on Feb 15, 2005 18:49:10 GMT
Here is an interesting thought - has anybody had a discussion about visions with somebody who has been blind from birth - how would they describe what they saw..
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Post by symbol on Feb 15, 2005 18:57:30 GMT
Are "Visions" acceptable.... Interesting many millions of people accept "visions" I can't think of a religion that doesn't have visions in their history, Look at John Smith - and the Mormons.. The question is the interpretation.
it also depends on the expectation of the seer. Do peolple tend to see a vision that relates to their belkief system ie Mary by Catholics ete and aliens by alien believers (dont know what they are called ) Are we talking millions in reality ? I only have beliefs in this , i understand they are flimsy and actually mean nothing, my leanings that peolple see what they want to see or expect to see. ie aliens are the lastest how many saw almond eyed greys before they became media conscious?
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Post by whistler on Feb 15, 2005 19:14:25 GMT
it also depends on the expectation of the seer. Do peolple tend to see a vision that relates to their belkief system ie Mary by Catholics ete and aliens by alien believers (dont know what they are called ) Are we talking millions in reality ? I only have beliefs in this , i understand they are flimsy and actually mean nothing, my leanings that peolple see what they want to see or expect to see. ie aliens are the lastest how many saw almond eyed greys before they became media conscious?. With out doubt some people claim visions to support all manner of things - fortunately we all have intuition to make judgements on "Vision" Claims Part of the problem maybe that we can only relate in our visions to shapes we understand - if an alien life form was totally different to anything you have ever known, and was to appear in your vision how could it be shown to you. With regard to Atlantis and Scotland, Russells account is more believable than that of a fish climbing out of the primeval slime, and donning a sporran
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Post by symbol on Feb 15, 2005 19:26:17 GMT
With regard to Atlantis and Scotland, Russells account is more believable than that of a fish climbing out of the primeval slime, and donning a sporran
in what way is it more belivable? What makes it so?
I doubt that i would experience a vision, because they dont fit into my belief structure, Even if i saw something ?? then it would not be inturpetated as vision , certainly not a reglious experience, you see my problem is with this is that the seer sees in a way that they can understand,,
I would see a second hand car dealer or a very good NLP trainer...
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Post by a on Feb 15, 2005 19:38:12 GMT
aliens by alien believers (dont know what they are called ) ufologists, abductees, contactees, to name a few more common ones. Stewart sits nervously awaiting Ruffs boot here.. I used to be a bit of a UFO buff some years back, and have met and corresponded with some of the worlds respected experts in this field, and more than a few who believe that they have a personal involvement one way or another. Now I just wonder at the arrogance of the human race for believing that we are the most advanced/only advanced species around. Which could bring me on to animal sentience, but that is another, though not totally unrelated debate. Suffice to say that I would very much like to sit in a room with representatives of all of the various species reported to be visiting Earth at this time, and generally progress matters somewhat. The trouble is that it may be hard to tell some of them from you and me. Mindblowing stuff. But back to the topic. I do think that "alien" is but a modern name for an age old phenomena. A bit like guardian angels I guess. Interesting thought, when our astronauts head out into space, to other life forms are we called the "aliens"? Also if you read the books by Budd Hopkins about an Abduction case in New York, The Catholic Church appeared to take it very seriously and provided high level support for the abductee. I am impressed. I wonder what the Catholic churchs official policy is on abductions. Perhaps I should ask them? Does anyone know the protocol for writing to The Vatican? Deal with such issues responsibly and courageously on a global scale and our world will take an important step forward in its evolution.
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Post by symbol on Feb 15, 2005 20:09:09 GMT
thats one of the problems isnt it , one case you mentioned but there thousands reported and isnt the bulk from the states. Im not saying there is nothing going on nor is there an arrogance that we are the only ones nor am i misguided in thinking that we are top of the tree. we are simply a tolorated virus on the planet, but i just dont buy into ambiguos esoteric claims, vague statements that have as many interprutations as claims. Just look at the Templar issues , the mistakes and the misleading that appears to have gone , the poor research, not to mention the agendas and money making schemes, from what ive learnt recently about some of the Masonic history , i question all, i believe thats healthy. Show me an alien and ill give you my winning lottery ticket. LOL The truth may be out there but on this world its manipulated and squeezed to fit peoples own agendas, for money or power in what ever form,,,
Pheewwwww sorry rant over. Im normally such a calm person. Idont blindly dis it all, i have been a true follower in the past but now quetion before im sthingy fed.
Read it now cause i will probably read again later think its all too harsh and delete lol
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Post by a on Feb 15, 2005 21:41:57 GMT
Hi Symbol Some thoughts thats one of the problems isnt it , one case you mentioned but there thousands reported and isnt the bulk from the states. A lot are from the States yes, but there are many reports from most countries. Dig around and I am sure taht you will find some quite close to your home. Whether you believe them or not is a separate issue.Quite possibly, after all humanity has proven itself to be far from humane all to often. But there are different ways of looking at this.Agreed. With me is was easy. I started from a profane perspective, totally devoid of any esoteric training, and in time I came to realsie just how esoteric some things that I knew were. I will confess not to fully understanding why there has been so much secrecy in the past, but that seems to have changed, esoterics are everywhere. Bet that upsets a few. But let me be specific I have on occassions communicated effectively with some animals, cats and a snake to be precise. But I do recognise that it could all just be coincidence. I know that some consider that to be highly esoteric in a very practical sense, but for me it is natural, even though it freaked me out the first time. But is it esoteric, for there is a lot of scientific work currently being done on animal sentience? What was once esoteric is rapidly becoming exoteric. before you ask no I cant do it to command (be nice if I could), though I have been given advice and I am testing it to try to identify the whys, whens and whatevers. perhaps one day I will become more proficient.Questioning is indeed very healthy. Being a yes man does not lead to enlightenment, it may lead to power in the physical world but that is a separate issue.I wish that i could, but if I could would you believe me? How would you recognise an alien?Unfortuantely true, but such actions are now reaping the destruction of their very own base, which will mean that unless they reflect and rebalance it is quite possible that they will one day have total power over very little. Gottcha before you could. ;D
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ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
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Post by ruffashlar on Feb 16, 2005 8:44:26 GMT
and aliens by alien believers (dont know what they are called )
Eejits.
I know whereof I speak: I used to be a bit of a yoofo fan myself, back in the day. But everyone did in those strange times: people used to drink full-strength Irn-Bru while wearing jeans with 35 inch bottoms, to say nothing of the size of their turn-ups. Steve Austin could take fifteen minutes to run three yards and everyone thought he was hammerin' along. Sex hadn't been invented yet, but Julie Covington looked like a Lesbian and gave me hot flushes.
Time has moved on. I only drink Diet Irn-Bru Decaffeinated. I will never wear wide-ended hi-waisters again upon pain of having my heart and vitals torn out. Television is crap, but there are more channels to spread the crapness around more evenly. I still have a thing for short-haired Lesbians.
But UFOs are nonsense and, even worse, quite naff. People who like Friends and drink skinny latte from Starbucks are into UFOs. Think about that!
BTW, the protocol for writing to the Vatican is to send an envelope marked KAROL WOJTYLA, CITTA' DEL VATICANO to Italy and then awaiting the elapse of some years before giving up on the hope of any reply. Failing that, you could just invade Rome. It worked for the warlord Jacques d'Euse. He threatened to cut off their heads. They made him Pope John XXII. Result!
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Post by a on Feb 16, 2005 8:55:37 GMT
and aliens by alien believers (dont know what they are called ) Eejits. Lets pick, one of many specific examples - Nick Pope. Nick Pope works for the British Ministry of Defence. At one stage he was put on the desk that delt with UFO reports from the public. He admits that he was a disbeliever. But once his three years tour of duty was up he became a believer. He still works for the MoD, and has a nice side line in books and talks on the subject. At one conference he introduced an abductee that he has closely worked with. My point is that it is not just "Eejits" who believe in such things. Ruff in a few years time I may remind you of that sentiment. Thanks. Can't imagine me invading Rome, nor being pope. Mind you I am not a catholic so that would probably exclude me. I may however write to them, about a whole range of issues. Wonder if I will have to wait "the elapse of some years before giving up on the hope of any reply"?
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bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Feb 16, 2005 9:05:16 GMT
Ruff in a few years time I may remind you of that sentiment. What? After you've been kidnapped (again) by aliens and brain washed in preparation to make you the next pope? That way you could also sort out freemasonry, close all the black holes in space, resolve the constitutional dilemas of Nepal and other countries, and still be back home in time for tea. Got to admire your enthusiasm, while wondering why on earth you bother.
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Post by a on Feb 16, 2005 9:17:54 GMT
Bod
You do make me laugh. I can say with absolute honestry that I do not remember ever being kidnapped by aliens.
I would love to meet the Pope, but me be Pope, could be some problems with that, for I have some issues with some of the things that the Catholic Church has done. But then again I am impressed by other things that they do.
Re sorting out Freemasonry, the only people that can do that are Freemasons, each and every single one.
Re the rest of your funny flippant comments, I am only a simple man doing what little I can where I can.
But the real question - why do I bother?
Because our world, its peoples and its creatures, are all very important. And at this specific point in time our world is very unbalanced, so much so that there is the very real risk that it could reset. I have found after 39 and a good bit years that I can actually do something positive for everyone, and I think that it is important that I at least try. Not an easy road to walk, but it is my road.
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Post by bevan on Feb 16, 2005 9:55:17 GMT
Stewart, I think that as society in general has lost faith in the Divine some of us have transfered that faith to a belief in such things as aliens and other man-made esoteric inventions. Funny how it seems that aliens have only been around since science made them possible. Unless of course one believes in Sitchin and his Sumerian Nephilim, which is of course only a modern theory projecting backwards. We paint our past and our future with the colour of our beliefs so I think we should at least try to make them worth something. Unless you think that surrealism serves a greater good of course... Personally I wonder what alien would lurk about near rural country roads abducting people who live too close to power lines for their own good. ;D I'd far rather believe the theory that aliens are amongst us (i.e. they are part of us already) than that they are visiting us on the quiet....
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Post by hollandr on Feb 16, 2005 9:56:43 GMT
Stewart
Is there a forum for serious discussions?
Cheers
Russell
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bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Feb 16, 2005 10:38:31 GMT
Stewart Is there a forum for serious discussions? Cheers Russell Plenty - and this is one of them, however, be prepared to defend your comments and back up your statements, this isn't a forum for those who blindly accept without question.
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Harmony
Member
The Craft ; 1241 & 1386 & 1706 (Hon) (SC). OSM - Polnoon Castle Conclave. HRA - Rockmount & Camphi
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Post by Harmony on Feb 16, 2005 13:47:15 GMT
Russell, don't go - I am actually interested in what you believe (although I don't believe it myself).
It is only by hearing your views that the rest of us can make a personal value judgement. Otherwise they are likely just to be consigned to the "nutter" bin.
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Post by Trinityman on Feb 16, 2005 14:03:57 GMT
Is he leaving? That would be a shame. I find Russell's posts fascinating.
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bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Feb 16, 2005 14:19:34 GMT
I'd prefer it if Russell didn't leave, but it is his choice to do so. Like Harmony I don't agree with a lot of Russell posts, but I do find it interesting enough to read them.
A forum is made up of many people and many opinions - not all of which mesh seamlessly.
As Bill Mc says, Tolerance is the key....
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Post by a on Feb 16, 2005 15:22:54 GMT
Russell
Please feel free to email me if you prefer.
All
The issues raised by Symbol are very important. Many people find them uncomfortable, but that does not make them any less real.
With tolerance and open minds and hearts, threads such as this could help many take positive steps forward.
Bevan
I agree, it is far from a new phenomenon.
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