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Post by penfold on Feb 2, 2006 0:29:28 GMT
Freemasons-- FromThe 700 Club To Art Bell, an object of conspiracy thinking. by Conrad Goeringer May, 1998 Start with a guy named Richard Hoagland, science writer and author of a controversial book titled The Monuments of Mars. Hoagland argues that photos from reconnaissance missions to the Red Planet show an enormous artificial construction or artifact in the shape of a faceBut reportedly, Hoagland and Bell saw all of this as evidence of “remarkable cult religious references among various members of the NASA team,” a “rogue group” in the nation’s leading space and technology program. Levine says that for Hoagland, the purpose of this cabal is to “fulfill Masonic traditions by carrying out ‘Egyptian ritual philosophy’ through space exploration........ follow link below here www.americanatheist.org/supplement/conspiracy.html (mod note - sorry I deleted this thinking it was a conspiracy nut link - but then actually read the article. Sorry selket.)
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Post by windtimber on Feb 7, 2006 15:36:08 GMT
Last time I listened to this bunch was about 7 or 8 months ago driving home from southern Kansas late into a dark summer Saturday night. It was great company on scratchy AM radio, no moon, deserted country roads, and small sleepy towns at 2:30 a.m.
It was amazing what I learned of alien incidents, conspiracies to suppress nuclear fusion technology, warehouses full of interstellar spacecraft, cabals intent on world domination, and the number of odd fellows with no last name who have been deeply involved with so many covert government agencies!
I suppose, relative to the link in the message starting this thread, that the fact that Kenneth Kleinknecht was long involved with NASA and with Martin-Marietta, he donated his collection of space memorabilia to the Scottish Rite S.J., and Fred Kleinknecht worked his way to the top of the Scottish Rite S.J., all makes for fine conspiracy fodder. The beauty of all of it is that, in true conspiracy fashion, if you can't really prove anything at all, it has to be true - because the truth is, obviously, being suppressed!
Ain't it grand to be paranoid? Or are these guys just plain nuts?
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Post by sid on Feb 7, 2006 19:52:43 GMT
Greetings, Ain't it grand to be paranoid? Or are these guys just plain nuts? Probably a good mixture of both Live and let live, I guess. Regards, Sid
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Post by grimaldy on Jun 19, 2006 0:27:00 GMT
Well Mr. Windtimber, there is a certain degree of method, one might also say reason to that thinking. Conspiracies are intended by their nature to be covert most often because they are aimed at disrupting or even overthrowing the established order. For instance, Timothy McVeigh, the young man who brought down the Oklahoma City courthouse is reputed to have been a Freemason. Certainly nothing in Freemasonry would countenance or approve an act such as that, but if his membership is correct, one can easily see how quickly secret societies may be imputed to evil motives. From that premise it is but a short step away for the uninitiated to speculate as to how far and to what extent secret societies might be up to some nefarious skullduggery. Consider for instance the American CIA, which of necessity is a clandestine society but is with great frequency and regularity involved in some sort of unlawful enterprise or another. Grimaldy
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Post by windtimber on Jun 26, 2006 18:19:59 GMT
Pardon me, but does anyone really believe Freemasonry is a "secret society"?
Recognizing things may be different elsewhere in the world, in the U.S.A. our buildings have signs announcing its a Masonic Temple [Or "Masonic Center" in U.S. p.c. language.]; generally meeting dates and times are posted on the bulletin board outside the door and on the internet and in the newspaper; many of us wear Masonic jewelry, lapel pins, or slap insignia on the backs of our automobiles; we hold "Enquirer's Nights" inviting interested members of the public to come in and visit; we rent our lodge halls out for receptions, meetings, dinners, and amateur theatricals; and all the ritual is readily available on-line or from various religious broadcasters.
Heck of a way to run a secret society seeking to engage in "nefarious skullduggery" isn't it?
Reminds me of a cable television show I saw a few years ago dealing with Bigfoot [aka Sasquatch]. The researcher, with a straight face, carefully explained that Bigfeet apparently use leafy branches to sweep away their footprints when they cross areas where they might leave tracks. The absence of tracks, therefore, was clear evidence that Bigfeet existed in the area because they covered up their tracks.........HUH?
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Jun 26, 2006 18:35:45 GMT
Like that wife that carefully looked at her husband's jacket, searching after another woman's hair.
Having nothing found, she thought that her antagonist had to be a bald woman!
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Post by leonardo on Jun 26, 2006 20:02:10 GMT
Like that wife that carefully looked at her husband's jacket, searching after another woman's hair. Having nothing found, she thought that her antagonist had to be a bald woman! ;D ;D Nice one Gio. Sums it up perfectly. IMO.
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Post by JRDennis on Jul 7, 2006 19:30:49 GMT
Art Bell has been on and off the air (from his home studio in Pharump, NV) for the past several years, ever since a family tragedy. Haven't heard him in years, but remember listening to him while driving 200 miles to my Army Reserve Unit on Friday nights. Timothy McVeigh was never a Freemason and there is little to show that he was ever interested in being one. The group that he hung out with generally considered Freemasons to be Jewish and part of the New World Order that was bringing the UN to run the United States. But then it would appear the Grimaldy reads and believes similiar groups. All of the Intelligence Services that belong to the various NATO countries have been involved in "illegal" activities. MI 5/6 hands have never been clean. Well Mr. Windtimber, there is a certain degree of method, one might also say reason to that thinking. Conspiracies are intended by their nature to be covert most often because they are aimed at disrupting or even overthrowing the established order. For instance, Timothy McVeigh, the young man who brought down the Oklahoma City courthouse is reputed to have been a Freemason. Certainly nothing in Freemasonry would countenance or approve an act such as that, but if his membership is correct, one can easily see how quickly secret societies may be imputed to evil motives. From that premise it is but a short step away for the uninitiated to speculate as to how far and to what extent secret societies might be up to some nefarious skullduggery. Consider for instance the American CIA, which of necessity is a clandestine society but is with great frequency and regularity involved in some sort of unlawful enterprise or another. Grimaldy
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Post by grimaldy on Jul 19, 2006 1:40:44 GMT
To Mr. Windtimber: Well Sir, if Freemasonry is not a secret society, pray tell me why prominent public officials work so hard to conceal their affiliation? Consider for instance Representative Jack F. Kemp (R-NY) who makes no disclosure at all in his official biography, but the Buffalo News in 1986 reported his membership in the Fraternal Lodge,F&AM, Harby, NY. Or consider Senator Trent Lott of Mississppi, Pasquejoula Lodge, Mississippi, who makes no mention of his affiliation in any of his official biographies; he lost his post as senate majority leader for certain public remarks about American citizens of African descent at a birthday party for another Freemason, Strom Thurmond, who has the honor of a memorial library, a college historical institute and a high school being named after him, all of whom he neglected to tell about his membership in Concordia Lodge #50, Edgefield, SC. Surely these people are not ashamed to admit publicly to being Freemasons? After all as important public figures they control public expenditures, grants, promotions etc. Surely they would think transparency about membership in a prestigious organisation like the Freemasons would be a public benefit? Or is it really as Albert Pike put it: "I will always hail, ever conceal, never reveal"? You tell me Mr. Windtimber if that sounds like a secret society to you? Grimaldy
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Post by grimaldy on Jul 19, 2006 1:53:21 GMT
To JR Dennis; The problem of course is that recognition and verification of a fellow Freemason is largely determined by speaking with that other person. From that difficulty two problems arise; first that a person who claims to be a Freemason may display regalia, ring and bumpersticker but really is not at all. Second, there is no certified membership card that a person can display to prove membership. Timothy McVeigh was reported to have been initiated in "the clandistine jurisdiction Confederate Grand Lodge of North America" by some individual signing himself "oclock 9 Master Mason". The post was not traceable to any source I have been able to find, and so it is very likely that it is not true at all, but merely a spurious posting by some crank. Certainly it is widely believed the McVeigh felt he was serving some cause when he when to his death, but the fact remains that he may well have been duped by people "sailing under a false flag" as the expression goes. Grimaldy
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Post by windtimber on Jul 19, 2006 18:37:48 GMT
You tell me Mr. Windtimber if that sounds like a secret society to you? Nope. There are lots of things we each choose not to share with others. That's the hallmark of a free society, not a secret society.
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Post by penfold on Jul 19, 2006 18:51:25 GMT
Grimaldy - this forum is not a place for unfounded accusations and anti-masonic blah blah, there are plenty of compost heaps on the internet to post such garbage. We operate a warning system here - consider yourself duly warned. Further breaches of the house rules will result in the deletion of your account. Please respond to this by private message so as not to spam up the board.
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Post by maat on Jul 20, 2006 0:48:50 GMT
Hi Grimaldy
There is nothing like a good conspiracy theory to get you going. I am a conspiracy buff myself. I remember reading in the 70's about the millennium end of the world and figured I would only be 54 when I met the Maker. Ha - guess what - I am going to be much older and more wrinkled than anticipated ;D. I am currently into the wickedness of pharmaceutical companies ... and like you are really concerned. However, from experience I am fairly certain that they are not so bad as some would have us think.
Granted - there are probably some horrible people in Freemasonry AS THERE ARE IN ALL CONGREGATIONS OF PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
Freemasons most dangerous attribute is that if they are good Freemasons they will be FREE THINKERS - FREE masons.
The catholic church put how many people to death for thinking freely and sharing their knowledge? I think that 'the secrecy' that is attached to Freemasonry probably stems from these days of persecuting the avant garde thinkers and scientists of the day. This still happens today!!! And most particularly to scientists!!!
I take it that you are not a Freemason yourself otherwise your concerns would be non existent. Most of us are flat strap managing our households let alone the world ;D
Pssst ... Most Freemasons are Do-Gooders and are taught to do good in a quiet manner - this is a secret too.
Cheers Maat
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Post by grimaldy on Jul 20, 2006 2:23:54 GMT
To penfold; Apparently we are both mistaken. I thought this was a forum for the exchange of ideas and opinions, where people would have the courage and ability to defend the things they say; you think I am simply given to posting anti-masonic "blah blah", whatever that is supposed to mean. To Maat: No I am not reallly given to conspiracy theories at all, but I am always interested in different points of view even if drawing them out may seem provocative. Some members of my family are Freemasons as are many people I have had occasion to encounter in my life time (and it appears the age difference between us is not that great). One of the things I have always noticed about them is that they tend to be some of the finest people one would ever want to meet as all around human beings. Some of course are not, but that is pretty much the human condition. Of course there are always the Mr. Penfolds who are ever on guard for any percieved slight or attack, but that's life. Your observation about scientists is really quite accurate; as Carl Sagan is reported to have said, the reason two plus two is always four is that the answer does not depend on the status or authority of the person working the problem. Kind regards, Grimaldy
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Post by penfold on Jul 20, 2006 6:47:32 GMT
To penfold; Apparently we are both mistaken. I thought this was a forum for the exchange of ideas and opinions, where people would have the courage and ability to defend the things they say; you think I am simply given to posting anti-masonic "blah blah", whatever that is supposed to mean. Grimaldy - there is only one of us who is wrong - this is a masonic forum, not some pointless space for people to shoot the breeze about what ever takes their fancy. Your original post contained inaccuracies and false information that is usually regurgated by individuals who have read such information on anti-masonic sites, and don't have the intelligence or motivation to differentiate between truth and fiction, you also presume to know freemasonry better than us - the members. The membership of this forum is drawn from masons across the globe, and across the sexes, you would be hard pushed to find a larger cross section of freemasons. In short - if you wish to continue to post then follow the house rules and we will be pleased to have you here, if those rules aren't to your liking then find somewhere else that will be more up your street. Nothing too complicated about that for you I hope?
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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 20, 2006 12:39:48 GMT
I thought this was the other thread?
Whats in a name - Grimlady ?
I was so happy till I read your posts, its all falling apart, the end is nigh.
How about you come to the UK , go to each Provincial Grand Lodge and buy the year book. You will then have the name of every Freemason in England. thats about 230,000 to start with.
Indeed I have noticed on the Lodge web sites of US Lodges they have a tendancy to list all their Past Masters. Some all its members. They also have reports on the Charitable works and give the names of the Masons involved in the funD raising. You would think a secret society would be a little silly to let all those secrets out.
Well maybe your right , that means we are just plain stupid?
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Post by middlepillar on Jul 20, 2006 21:55:21 GMT
I thought this was the other thread? Whats in a name - Grimlady ? Whats in a name? Grim all day! Log on to the Conspiracy sites, I am sure you will get far more sense from them!
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Post by taylorsman on Jul 21, 2006 3:21:46 GMT
All I can find on Grimaldy was that there was a Cardinal Grimaldy in the 1600s in France, Grimaldy (or possibly Grimaldi) is the family name of the Rulers of Monaco e.g. the late Prince Ranier, and there was a famous Clown called Grimaldy --- perhaps that is the answer?
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Post by ingo on Jul 21, 2006 12:09:57 GMT
The clown "Crock" was a mason
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Post by guarddog on May 31, 2011 2:11:13 GMT
There are a couple of reasons McVeigh was unlikely to be a Freemason. One, he was a Catholic and the Papacy forbids them joining the Freemasons under penalty of excommunication. Secondly, there is a previous post that says "Timothy McVeigh was reported to have been initiated in "the clandistine jurisdiction Confederate Grand Lodge of North America". There are no such Grand Lodges in American Freemasonry. It would constitute a "clandestine Lodge" and as such would be unrecognized by any traditional and accepted Grand Lodges.
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