giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Sept 27, 2006 14:27:58 GMT
The reason more Masons do not deserve the title is not altogether their fault. It's our fault! We don't know enough ourselves to teach them; we don't care enough about it to teach them. A good balance in the bank, a growing membership, a free feed, 'nice' degrees - and we call ourselves a successful lodge. But we make only ten men real Masons for every hundred to whom we give the degrees, and the fault is ours; not theirs; my fault, your fault, our fault because we don't study, don't learn, don't care to learn the real secrets of Freemasonry and so cannot teach them.
Bro. Carl Claudy
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Post by ariel on Oct 16, 2006 11:36:44 GMT
When you say only 10% of a Lodge are "real" Masons,giovanni,I take it you mean the rest should be guided. But,here is the question one has to ask: some of the 90% may not be taking the initiative and some may need a little help from their Brothers. It defeats the core of FM if those who ask for help do not receive it and those who are there for the "frills" are not worthy to be true Masons. Ofcourse a Lodge has to have "real" Masons and maybe some members are not putting in as much as they want to get out of FM and these,to me,do not deserve to be called "real" FM. Kind regards, Ariel
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phil
Member
Just me all at sea
Posts: 209
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Post by phil on Oct 16, 2006 18:07:38 GMT
Giovani, my dear brother. You said “The reason more Masons do not deserve the title….”
My question to you is, by who’s standards do you judge these “non-deserving” Masons?
If I may be so bold to state my opinion: While we are taught to use the square and the 24 inch gauge to measure and try our work, ourselves and others, these instruments are meant to evaluate and test but not to take judgement.
There are many reasons why a person joins Freemsonry. Some of those reasons may be considered by others not to be so honourable, dedicated, or whatever and yet, they join and could later develop to be most valuable members -- or not.
As far as teaching others to follow “our” standards is rather arrogant. It assumes that we are right and that they are wrong. I do have difficulties with such a concept.
I have tried to enlighten many “young” Freemasons in the background, traditions, symbols and rituals of Masonry by means of workshops, instruction and personal mentoring. However, at the end of the day, the mason learns and develops (or not) to his own standards.
We may not rejoice in what we perceive as their being below our hopeful standards but we have no right to judge them.
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Oct 16, 2006 18:30:24 GMT
Phil,
it's true, not everybody is at our standard.
But some people strive to reach it, some others are like... a rain-coat: everything drops off!
After 22 years of Freemasonry I think I can distinguish between the two kinds. And you too.
I never denied my help to those who were seeking for it, and, let me add, I am really happy if somebody overwhelms me.
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Post by wayseer on Oct 16, 2006 22:59:38 GMT
Bros Phil and Giovanni - you both encapsulate the conundrum with we all face as Masons - what is it that is Masonic? There is too often tension between what 'is' and what 'should' be Masonic.
It is perhaps appropriate that we all stand back a bit and recognise that the whole of Masonry is not about the Lodge meeting in a Temple - it's about the individual building his own personal Temple. And herein lies the tension - we often think what others 'should' do and miss out on what we need to do ourselves - that is maintain responsibility for the construction of our ediface; recognising that I too often slip into this type of sloppy thinking - that the Brethren need comform to my idea of what a Mason might be and that we are all equal before one another.
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Post by maat on Oct 17, 2006 0:00:34 GMT
;D In schools all of the children are considered 'students' - even the 6 year olds who are bashing each other up down by the swings. If one can entertain the concept that Soul wise we are all at different stages in our Earth Curriculum it is easier to understand how all the Brn of Free-masonry are 'students' whether they be building sand castles or pyramids. But I do remember how frustrating it was when my daughter was really small and conversation was severely restricted by her limited capacity at that stage with words and ideas. I also remember how amazing and wonderful it was when she made her little (BIG) steps towards maturity. Freemasonry is just life in miniature with all its challenges and rewards... so I guess we need to have 'all ages' to maintain some balance. We usually cannot judge for ourselves just how old we are soul-wise (I could be just 5 myself and getting a bit tired of the 3 yr old), so this might be the right time to ask ourselves if we are prepared to take instruction ourselves, or are we just keen to pass on the little we think we know. I still maintain that I learn more from EA's than anyone.... they usually are the one's who ask the hard questions and I must scurry to find out some answers It also useful to remember that even pre-school teachers must have had tertiary education before they are qualified to teach - and when they finally front up to their first class room they do not beret 'the students' for their idleness, they start to enthuse their students to want to know more and to master skills. Maat
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wolfy
Member
Its the cute, fluffy ones you have to be careful of!
Posts: 79
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Post by wolfy on Jan 18, 2007 22:14:47 GMT
a further thought here;
How many of you who are 10, 20, 30 years + on the Masonic "circuit" would stop and think about what someone who is 4 months initiated would say? (masonicly of course not generally).
So far I have not met one (please remember, i have not met many masons! lol)
Yes imparting knowledge is absolutely fine and dandy, but sometimes, it is the really simple observations that make people think, and far too often, people are often thinking "I have 10 years experience over that guy, he has nothing I haven't heard before, but maybe I CAN HELP HIM"
Whilst the heart is without a doubt in the right place, it is the persons overconfidence and probable oversight that has exclude him from seeing something that someone else has seen, thus reducing his own possible mental growth.
so maybe a good leson that all should learn is "listen, listen, listen, think, teach"
The young of today will be the teachers of tomorrow...but their thoughts and ideas should be valued right now.
Half a bottle of wine and I get all philosophical! so please excuse me lol
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Jan 18, 2007 23:29:20 GMT
the GAOTU gave us 2 ears and only 1 mouth...
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Post by waynecowley on Jan 19, 2007 8:42:15 GMT
Wise words Bro James
Wayne
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Post by willied77 on Feb 21, 2008 15:19:07 GMT
the GAOTU gave us 2 ears and only 1 mouth... Mmmm I'm sure alot of us have an extra 'eye' that we try to hide or deny. For if its not a physical object, we seem as a culture to shy away from it....
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Post by jimnicholson on Apr 5, 2008 18:16:05 GMT
When a student fully realizes that right action to Life is its own reward they will then choose to do the work neccessary to bring it into expression -- whatever form of Teaching they are studying. That one of the greatest forms of teaching is "example" the seasoned and well studied teacher is saddled with a tough challenge. In order to be effective not only must they have compassion, and a temperance for imperfection, but they are tasked to become that which they would like to see in others regardless of the lack of such qualities they may find in another.
It would appear the Creator gave us a world where all polarities exist all at the same time -- even within the very object, person, Group we are viewing! It has both good, bad, and "just is" qualities... An interesting thing transpires though when a Teacher can "look for the good" within another -- a subtle momentum is started which on some level the student can "feel." It is an attractive force. Compassion being the fruit of knowledge -- the greater the distance another needs to travel the more inclined one could become in trying to Help. To find fault would at once throw up a shadow that may darken both the viewer and the object viewed. The higher the consciousness, it would appear, the greater the need for acceptance, tolerance and Patience.
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Post by master999 on Jan 24, 2009 22:23:11 GMT
I love all the info you people puts out on this topic........I came here looking for answers........I just found it.
Curtis
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Post by windtimber on Apr 8, 2011 21:43:08 GMT
Here's a portion of an article I wrote some time back that may address the original poster's quotation from Carl Claudy and the tenor of the comments thereafter:
In the late 1960s, a time of noted decline in our gentle craft, many influential thinkers predicted that the divine, however defined, would lose ground to the secular in a pluralistic, modern world. That idea came into broad discussion with Harvey Cox’s 1965 best seller, The Secular City, celebrating the advent of secular, urban civilization and the inexorable decline of traditional religious/moral value systems.
By the late 1980s Cox had renounced his thesis. Peter Berger, director of the Institute on Culture, Religion and World Affairs at Boston University, also rethought his presumptions and by 1999 had published The Desecularization of the World: Resurgent Religion and World Politics. Moving from his previous secular, urban view Berger now states “The assumption that we live in a secularized world is false. The world is as furiously religious as it ever was.”
The social scientists who predicted the demise of values developed through moral introspection guided through an individual’s unique perception of the divine have seen in the last decade or more what we, as Freemasons, have always claimed to have seen. As evidenced by the sincere inquiries excerpted above, the individual moral compass of Masonry is needed as much, if not more, today than it ever was. Men interested in Masonry want to know who we are, what we do, and how we do what we do. Why? Because they are searching for a noble, moral journey.
We, as 21st Century Freemasons, can provide that noble, moral journey. We are the legators of a vast storehouse of universal moral knowledge. As the custodians of such a wealth, we have an obligation consisting – in particularly Masonic imagery – of three distinct parts. First, we are obliged to protect and preserve the knowledge of the ages passed down to us by our forebears. Second, we are obligated to learn those lessons ourselves and apply them to the conduct of our individual lives. Third, we are obligated to pass the unadulterated knowledge we learned and preserved onto the next generation of brothers.
Generally, we’ve done a pretty good job on the first obligation – protecting and preserving. Our ritual is printed in long and short forms, ciphered and not, digitized, archived, and otherwise housed in libraries throughout the world. Masonic commentators and commentary are readily available to even the most casual researcher – and some of it is actually accurate and sensible!
As to the second obligation – learning and living our lessons – we’re slipping up a bit. While living our Masonic lessons is a uniquely personal task, institutional Masonry can and should share intentional, organized opportunities for education, study, and discussion by all members of our craft. Look at your lodge…do those opportunities exist? Is such discussion welcomed? If so, your lodge is two-thirds of the way to being a true Masonic Lodge. If not, remember that you’ll never reach the third obligation if you can’t comfortably deal with the second.
The third obligation – to pass on our wealth of moral knowledge – is, in its simplest form, teaching. Here we may well be falling down, and falling down hard. Passing on our wealth moral knowledge is far more than word perfect openings and closings and properly presented degree ritual. Only when we acknowledge that there is more to learn than regular ritual and formally embrace, in the words of one of the inquirers noted above, “a mystery school teaching men to develop noble moral qualities, latent spiritual human abilities, and teaching men spiritual truths not available to the profane,” will we have fulfilled all of our Masonic obligations.
By now you’re recoiling and shaking your head. A mystery school teaching men to develop noble moral qualities, latent spiritual human abilities, and teaching men spiritual truths not available to the profane. What kind of nonsense is that? Well, brothers, it’s not nonsense. It’s what Freemasonry has been about from time immemorial. Our new inquirers, courtesy of films and books and internet discussions and expose’ – both accurate and inaccurate – have passed beyond the veneer of institutional Freemasonry and, in innocence and true interest, demand us to address the very core of our organization.
If this is all a little uncomfortable, a little weird, maybe even a little creepy…then it’s time think back to that day when you first knocked on the inner door. Take your first steps again…and reflect on what it’s meant to you to be a Freemason these many years. You’ll find that there’s more to what you’ve learned. There are lessons behind the words. There are secrets deeper than the story presented in the third degree. Institutional Masonry and its hard focus on the day to day business of running a fraternity may have muffled what you first heard and felt. Step back, remember, and help educate your brothers, new and old. Don’t be afraid to share what you’ve felt and learned. Deliberately, with a full and generous heart, pass on the wisdom of the giants who walked through the lodge before us.
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Post by sammy on Jun 23, 2011 15:58:20 GMT
With most standards in-lies an expectation. If no expectation is set on your behalf, the growth would go at the students speed and outside of your "judgement". If the student doesnt grabhold, it will be thier own doing and loss. The only judgement you would need is how long to keep up with the lessons, and to what degree. What we expect is hardly the truth of what others can do, but time can fulfill the course.
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