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Post by timothyschru on Aug 30, 2007 11:20:46 GMT
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Post by hollandr on Aug 30, 2007 12:07:11 GMT
Timothy (I assume)
Masons do not worship in any sort of religious sense. The closest they come is to invoke the blessings of God under various non-denominational titles upon their undertakings
Accordingly Masonry can freely attract men (and women in some jurisdictions) of goodwill regardless of the culture into which they were born.
The emphasis by anti-masons on Grand Lodges seems somewhat ironic to many brethren as they would often happily conduct their own lodge affairs without regulation by their Grand Lodge.
As far as Grand Lodges or brethren of higher degrees (often not controlled by the Grand Lodges) having secret teachings or understandings, the rituals are all long published and the brethren of the higher degrees or holder Grand rank are often regarded as no more knowledgeable than craft lodge brethren.
For myself I have questioned some high ranking brethren under several jurisdictions and have not found signs of knowledge greater than available in the craft degrees
As far as Lucifer (literally: Light-bearer) there are many legends but none (as far as I know) are incorporated into Masonic ritual. The common complaint by anti-masons is that Pike made comments about Lucifer based on some legends. Whether the legends veil a higher meaning is not generally agreed and Lucifer is generally left to fundamentalists of various kinds
I have had a look at the site you mention. I wonder why they make no distinction between Satan and Lucifer.
For example:"In the Vulgate, an early-5th-century translation of the Bible into Latin by Jerome, Lucifer ("light-bearer") occurs in Isaiah 14:12-14 as a translation of the Septuagint Greek word heosphoros ("dawn-bearer"), an epithet of Venus. The original Hebrew text of this verse was heilel ben-shachar, meaning "Helel (bright one) son of Shachar (dawn)". Helel, the morning star, was a Babylonian / Canaanite god who was the son of another Babylonian / Canaanite god Shahar, god of the dawn. Isaiah 14:12 is translated "How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning!" in the American Standard Version translating Hebrew Helel as "day-star" and the Hebrew word ben as "son" and the Hebrew word shahar as "morning." The 21st Century King James translates it as "Lucifer, son of the morning"."
To my mind the Dawn-bearer is hardly the same as the adversary
"According to the article on 'Satan' in the Jewish Encyclopedia, Satan's role as the accuser is found "in the prologue to the Book of Job, where Satan appears, together with other celestial beings or 'sons of God,' before the Deity, replying to the inquiry of God as to whence he had come, with the words: 'From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.' (Job 1:7) Both question and answer, as well as the dialogue which follows, characterize Satan as that member of the divine council who watches over human activity, but with the evil purpose of searching out men's sins and appearing as their accuser."
So I wonder if those confusing Satan and Lucifer are equally well informed about Masonry
Thanks for asking
Cheers
Russell
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Post by tws on Aug 30, 2007 13:24:57 GMT
Anything you read on E-511 should be taken with a very large dose of salt. Bro. Russell has encapsulated the Lucifer question very well in his post. I'll say this: Lucifer, as the bright morning star, is looked upon by many in esoteric circles as representing enlightenment. We must learn to look beneith the surface, as wisdom is often hidden in plain sight.
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Post by brandt on Aug 30, 2007 13:32:30 GMT
well said
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Post by leonardo on Aug 30, 2007 13:51:28 GMT
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imakegarb
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One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Aug 30, 2007 14:02:08 GMT
Hmmmmm. I guess it's possible that a Freemason who considers Lucifer to be his/her supreme being might, as an individual, worship Lucifer. However, it would be on his/her own time and not as part of any Masonic ritual.
Y'see, you are not stripped of your religion when you become a Freemason. You remain free to worship as you choose.
However, as Bro. Russell pointed out, the closest Freemasons come to worship is when we invoke the blessing, or pray to, the Great Architect of the Universe, who never is identified as any specific god.
And the E-511 crowd . . . many half truths, outright lies and intentional misunderstandings there. I don't go.
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 30, 2007 16:30:03 GMT
I have personally received over 70 degrees of Masonry, and have read the entire Collectanea which are degrees that are no longer worked. So, in over 170 degrees of Masonry, I cannot recall a single instance where Satan or Lucifer are even mentioned.
I can tell you that there are quite a few degrees that cannot be conferred on someone who has not professed Christian faith.
The claim that Masonry worships Lucifer is totally bogus.
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Post by antoninus9 on Aug 30, 2007 17:17:40 GMT
In Georgia they worship BBQ pig with lots of tangy sauce. lol
I received 360 degrees of Masonry and ended up where I started. ;D
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Post by devoutfreemason on Aug 30, 2007 17:34:20 GMT
I suppose some do, and some worhip a head of lettuce named Ralph, or L. Ron Hubbard.
FYI: There are only 3 degrees in Masonry, the rest is just add on hooo haaa.
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 30, 2007 17:42:23 GMT
I suppose some do, and some worhip a head of lettuce named Ralph, or L. Ron Hubbard. FYI: There are only 3 degrees in Masonry, the rest is just add on hooo haaa. Blue Lodge consists of 3 degrees. It's ignorant to act like the Scottish Rite and York Rite bodies are not "Masonry." My point was that I have not seen the mention of Lucifer in ANY "Masonic" ritual.
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Post by leonardo on Aug 30, 2007 17:51:41 GMT
I suppose some do, and some worhip a head of lettuce named Ralph, or L. Ron Hubbard. FYI: There are only 3 degrees in Masonry, the rest is just add on hooo haaa. Blue Lodge consists of 3 degrees. It's ignorant to act like the Scottish Rite and York Rite bodies are not "Masonry." My point was that I have not seen the mention of Lucifer in ANY "Masonic" ritual. Yes, referring to the side degrees in this manner was unessery but I hardly feel it was meant as insulting. Please try to stay on topic.
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Post by mike on Aug 30, 2007 17:54:45 GMT
Pike actually wrote - The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. Lucifer. The Light Bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendours intolerable blinds feeble sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not! For traditions are full of Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of one Age nor of one Creed Plato and Philo also, were also inspired.
what the New Advent Encyclopedia says - The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliance. The Vulgate employs the word also for "the light of the morning" (Job 11:17), "the signs of the zodiac" (Job 38:32), and "the aurora" (Psalm 109:3). Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:12) as preeminent among the princes of his time; to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclesiasticus 50:6), for his surpassing virtue, to the glory of heaven (Apocalypse 2:28), by reason of its excellency; finally to Jesus Christ himself (2 Peter 1:19; Apocalypse 22:16; the "Exultet" of Holy Saturday) the true light of our spiritual life.
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 30, 2007 17:56:02 GMT
If the topic is "Lucifer worship in Masonry," I was on topic. If it is about BBQ and heads of cabbage, then maybe not...
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imakegarb
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One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Aug 30, 2007 18:15:21 GMT
FYI: There are only 3 degrees in Masonry, the rest is just add on hooo haaa. I'm hopefully looking forward to the add on hooo haaa ;D And, since we're taking Ralph's name in vain, and we know what often follows the salad, I think it won't be long before the Freemasonic Pastafarians show up
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Post by leonardo on Aug 30, 2007 18:18:02 GMT
If the topic is "Lucifer worship in Masonry," I was on topic. If it is about BBQ and heads of cabbage, then maybe not... I like cabbage, good for the brain. No wait, that should be fish.
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imakegarb
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One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
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Post by imakegarb on Aug 30, 2007 18:20:43 GMT
what the New Advent Encyclopedia says - The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliance. Ah, now we get the root, if there is one, of this myth. For there are those Freemasons who recognize astrological symbology in our Lodges and ritual. Do we have here a nugget of truth in the antiMasonic lies?
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Post by leonardo on Aug 30, 2007 18:20:55 GMT
FYI: There are only 3 degrees in Masonry, the rest is just add on hooo haaa. I'm hopefully looking forward to the add on hooo haaa ;D And, since we're taking Ralph's name in vain, and we know what often follows the salad, I think it won't be long before the Freemasonic Pastafarians show up Great link/post and ties in nicely with my fish joke:)
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 30, 2007 18:30:47 GMT
I guess you could say that Christians worship "Lucifer" (or the Morning Star) since that's who Jesus says he is in Rev.22...
Hey, Jesus ate lots of fish too;)
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Post by leonardo on Aug 30, 2007 19:31:29 GMT
I guess you could say that Christians worship "Lucifer" (or the Morning Star) since that's who Jesus says he is in Rev.22... Hey, Jesus ate lots of fish too;) I remember there is another reference to the "Morning Star" in the old Testament but I can't remember where abouts.
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 30, 2007 20:05:26 GMT
The OT reference to Morning Star, is Isa. 14:12...the KJV says "Lucifer" the NIV says "Morning Star"
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