imakegarb
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One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Sept 5, 2007 4:48:53 GMT
Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but . . . "How Great Thou Art" is actually one of my favorite hymns. I've been known to sing it with gusto when I'm alone, in the car, on some long trip the company sends me on. Lately it's been along the Pacific Coast and along the Santiam Pass (with its stellar views of Mount Hood). But I'm not sure it's about worship. Just telling the creator God, "Wow, that's really cool." Mind you, I've got some serious issues with the theology (I usually don't sing the last two verses) but . . . and, perhaps, it does matter how worship is defined . . . still . . .
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bod
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UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Sept 5, 2007 14:19:01 GMT
A very stirring hymn!
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Post by leonardo on Sept 5, 2007 16:56:42 GMT
Yes it is. In fact, Elvis Presley, no less, recorded an incredible version of this particular hymn. Needless to say I have is in my collection
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Sept 6, 2007 4:53:51 GMT
Tennessee Ernie Ford ;D
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Post by Antonius on Nov 27, 2007 16:07:22 GMT
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Post by hollandr on Nov 27, 2007 22:08:00 GMT
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Post by Antonius on Nov 27, 2007 22:37:20 GMT
yeah, and they are used to light candles, and candles are often lit with a spiritual intent...
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Post by penfold on Dec 11, 2007 19:04:45 GMT
It is also an English slang term for a matchstick, altho it hasn't really been in common usage for a long time. It came from the brand name used by one manufacturer. they may well have been playing on the fire imagery withthe use of the name
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Post by danael on Jan 4, 2008 0:52:33 GMT
You know.... here in the states we have a branch of christians from the Missouri Synod of the Lutheran church that believes that we as Masons are anti christian. I have been shown a flier that one brother had show up from his minister that was titled.... Does God want you to be a Mason? In so far as Masons worshiping..... If he calls the higher power Lucifer then so mote it be.
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Post by sniffles on Feb 17, 2008 21:57:59 GMT
The OT reference to Morning Star, is Isa. 14:12...the KJV says "Lucifer" the NIV says "Morning Star" Yeah, well, it's really the King of Babylon ;D Truly, it is. Y'see, Isaiah is taking dictation from God so he'll know what to say and to whom to say it. On this occasion, in 14:4, Isaiah is told: And it continues like this (saying all kinds of awful stuff, including stuff about maggots for a carpet and worms for a covering) all the way down to - and well past - 14:12, the entire time talking to the King of Babylon. True, in 14:12, we get: full text hereSo, what to make of it? K, I'm in serious danger of over simplifying this but . . . The Hebrew phrase in question is הילל בן שחר (helel ben-shachar). Helel is "bright one". The ben part of "son of" (y'know, like Ben Hur. His daddy was "Hur") Shachar is Dawn. And, since the gender of this noun isn't terribly clear, Dawn could be his Daddy or his Ma'ma. Anyway, Helel also is the name of a Babylonian/Canaanite god who was the son of another Babylonian/Canaanite whose name was . . . you guessed it: Shachar, god of the dawn. So, in context, it looks like Isaiah i making reference to the Babylonian King's gods and, given what else he has to say, it makes sense. I've heard a number of theories about how this all gets tied up with Lucifer (latin for "light bearer". The OT isn't written in Latin and, so, there is no Lucifer in the Hebrew OT) but I tend to prefer context and text to theological glosses. This is no help to us but: Here's something interesting: Shachar had a twin brother named Shalim... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShacharThe Phoenicians called Shalim - Shalamana or Salamana; which is really similar to Solomon... Then their is the biblical reference to the King of Tyre (Our Senior Warden who sits in the West) as being Lucifer, "an angel of the covering..." (whatever that means); and it says he was even present in the garded of eden? www.israelofgod.org/SatanIs14Ez28.htm
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Post by leonardo on Feb 19, 2008 13:41:35 GMT
You know.... here in the states we have a branch of christians from the Missouri Synod of the Lutheran church that believes that we as Masons are anti christian. I have been shown a flier that one brother had show up from his minister that was titled.... Does God want you to be a Mason? In so far as Masons worshiping..... If he calls the higher power Lucifer then so mote it be. Essentially it's a lack of understanding on some Christian's part and no amount of reasoning can be imparted to the unreasonable. Unfortunately with Fundamentalists there's no room for reasonable discussion.
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imakegarb
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One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Feb 19, 2008 17:44:29 GMT
Unfortunately with Fundamentalists there's no room for reasonable discussion. Well, as in any group, it depends on who you talk to. I was brought up in a Fundamentalist household and I have friends who are Fundamentalist. If you're talking about extremes of that group (whom I think of as agents of intolerance but whom others call by the unkind names of "Dominionists"), then your statement is true enough. But not all Fundamentalists fall into the extremes. These would be every bit as appalled by the unreasonable discussions that go on.
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Post by leonardo on Feb 19, 2008 18:25:04 GMT
Then your experience is very different from mine. I know of no Fundamentalist Christian who would speak positively of Freemasonry.
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Post by lauderdale on Feb 19, 2008 18:30:20 GMT
My experiences in this matter would accord with those of Bro Leo, I have to say.
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
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Post by Tamrin on Feb 19, 2008 20:16:43 GMT
Where does one draw the line as to who is and who isn't a "fundamentalist"? For instance, some would consider a person who believes in the virgin birth to be a fundamentalist.
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Post by maximus on Feb 19, 2008 20:59:46 GMT
Generally one is considered a fundamentalist when belief is centered around the Bible as being the literal and unfallable word of God. You know the type: a. The earth was created in six literal days, 6,000 years ago. b. Believes in all the miracles as having actually happened as described. c. There's a demon behind every bush, and Satan takes a personal interest in tempting you into hell every moment of your life. d. God hates fags. e. Everyone except my particular denomination is going to hell. f. All other religions are Satanic delusions. g. Freemasons worship Baphomet. h. It's thier mission in life to convert you, usually knocking on your door around dinnertime. I'm sure everyone could come up with a few more.
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Post by leonardo on Feb 19, 2008 21:39:08 GMT
Generally one is considered a fundamentalist when belief is centered around the Bible as being the literal and unfallable word of God. You know the type: a. The earth was created in six literal days, 6,000 years ago. b. Believes in all the miracles as having actually happened as described. c. There's a demon behind every bush, and Satan takes a personal interest in tempting you into hell every moment of your life. d. God hates fags. e. Everyone except my particular denomination is going to hell. f. All other religions are Satanic delusions. g. Freemasons worship Baphomet. h. It's thier mission in life to convert you, usually knocking on your door around dinnertime. I'm sure everyone could come up with a few more. Sad to say you have it pretty well covered there with regard to Christian Fundamentalists. Unless you are speaking to these people within the framework of their own absolute, die-hard views then anything you say will be disregarded as if it's coming from Satan. At least this is my experience.
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Post by maat on Feb 19, 2008 21:47:12 GMT
Mmmnnn ... having worked with some most marvellous souls who were homosexual by nature ... can I ask you to rephrase .d. ... please. Maat
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Post by maximus on Feb 19, 2008 21:49:02 GMT
The fundamentalist mindset takes a certain weakness in character, in my opinion, in that the person involved is giving over thier freewill for the security of absolute faith. For some, it is a comfort to be able to fall back on infallable belief and faith when faced with a situation that causes them to have to think. This is how we regressed and stagnated after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, and the rise of Ecclesiastical autherity in the vacum of power. This is the problem that plagues Islam today, and the only hope that we have as a species is for the light of reason to prevail against the darkness of blind faith.
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Post by maximus on Feb 19, 2008 21:58:36 GMT
Mmmnnn ... having worked with some most marvellous souls who were homosexual by nature ... can I ask you to rephrase .d. ... please. That is the language that certian fundamentalist Christian cults here in the US use, so it is thier own words being thrown back at them. It is offensive, but we must not shrink from facing reality head-on, for only by confronting such ignorant ideas can we expose them to the light of day. All ideas, no matter how ignorant or offensive should be allowed public discourse, as in that manner can they be shown to be be bankrupt, and not allowed to fester, like an infected wound, under the surface. This is one of the main arguements in favor of free-speech and a non-governmentally controlled press. I hope this clarifies.
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