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Post by willied77 on Mar 29, 2008 9:50:54 GMT
Yes Tamrin,
Because our eyes are set to look straight forward, we only relate to movement within a 2d line.
The lizards with rotating eyes can produce a 3d line so therefore they perceive everything in 3d.
I'm an engineer and have to produce complex helix, which moves upon 3 planes at once. these are x,y and z.
When I started to calculate the helix angles my brain could not relate to the 3 axis movement required. I still thought in x & y axis.
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Tamrin
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 29, 2008 11:06:34 GMT
But we can distinguish between 2D & 3D images. That is what makes holograms and "magic eye" images so intriguing.
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Post by willied77 on Mar 29, 2008 19:11:23 GMT
Indeed Tamrin, you are a learned individual!
However, such is the design of our eyes, at times they can fail to pick up objects or even add them in. This has alot to do with the focal point from the lens to the retina. So our eyes can deceive us!!
Our eyes can tell the difference between 2d & 3d objects because they can measure the proportinal distance from the front face of an object to the back. I.E It will look bigger at the front, growing smaller as it moves away. But the object is still the same size. Our brains adjust the object so that it does not lose focus.
I must point out that there are also 2 more co-ords in 3d space, namely a and b. These cut the centre axis at the point where x,y & z meet(in a + to - direction). If rotated they remain the same, while the other axis rotate about thier centerline.
Holograms are indeed unique and the method they use in layering the individual parts on top of each other is the reason I think that they seem 3d to us.
As for magic eye....well it does exactly what it says!
Bear in mind thou, our eyes do play tricks!
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Tamrin
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 29, 2008 20:46:57 GMT
From many years ago, I recall a Rick O'Shay comic strip, in which Hipshot Percussion and Rick were out riding and Hipshot spoke of predators having eyes at the front, giving them binocular vision and thus greater depth perception for accuracy when attacking, whereas prey animals had eyes to the side, giving them greater peripheral vision and thus being better able to spot predators. After a moment, it was apparent that Rick had formed an obvious conclusion about ourselves and Hipshot simply said, 'Yep!' On reflection, the conclusion was flawed, as many arboreal, prey animals have also evolved binocular vision which provides accuracy when leaping between branches. Even so, it is clear that our binocular vision provides better 3D imaging than with animals which sacrifice depth perception for peripheral vision.
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Post by willied77 on Mar 29, 2008 21:44:03 GMT
I'll get back to you on the function of animal sight. My mate is a Vet and should clear our venture into the finer details of imaging
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Post by maat on Mar 30, 2008 23:20:55 GMT
I have a friend who can astal (?) travel, who at a lodge meeting was telling us about an experience the previous night of doing a close bypass of Mars and seeing something hit it which caused a reaction. She was left thinking 'was that real or not' and we were left thinking 'is she real or not' About a week later there was a full report in the incidence, as she reported it, in the daily newspaper. We were all suitably relieved to read it Believe it or not. Maat
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Post by maat on Mar 30, 2008 23:34:17 GMT
Talking about vision, what eyes do we use to see in dreams/apparitions/visions/daydreaming..
Maat
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Post by maat on Mar 30, 2008 23:34:54 GMT
... or should that be 'which'? - Maat
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Post by hollandr on Mar 31, 2008 0:58:07 GMT
>what eyes do we use to see in dreams/apparitions/visions/daydreaming..
Maat
If we wish to operate on any subplane (rung on Jacob's Ladder) then we need to develop senses. This requires accumulating the subplane substance, learning to control it, and forming it into structures that have appropriate sensory and operative properties
Hence, if we operate at subplanes above our capacity then the vision is of light rather than detailed forms and we have trouble undertaking specific tasks.
It is usual before the 1st initiation (the real one) to test the candidate in various ways including:
- proportions of subplane substance (not too much lower and enough higher) - ability to carry out complex tasks on 7.1 and simple tasks on 6.4 - alignment with some spiritual forces (symbolised by the plumbline) - acceptance by a sponsor (on to a pavement)
Cheers
Russell
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Tamrin
Member
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 31, 2008 8:40:39 GMT
Russell, Why, when a hugely disproportionate number of your falsifiable assertions have indeed been falsified, should one grant you any credibility with respect to your unfalsifiable assertions? More so when you use idiosyncratic terminology, e.g., co-opting and confounding the symbolism of Jacob's Ladder with the adequate and pre-existing term, 'Rising on the Planes,' and after admitting your experiences to be inner and metaphorical, when you had described them in concrete terms.
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Post by hollandr on Mar 31, 2008 9:15:55 GMT
Philip
My post was a reply to Maat's question.
You may wish to provide an answer that you find more acceptable
I expect Maat is capable of assessing the relative merits
Cheers
Russell
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 31, 2008 9:25:32 GMT
Your post was public
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Post by maat on Mar 31, 2008 22:28:23 GMT
If we wish to operate on any subplane (rung on Jacob's Ladder) then we need to develop senses. This requires accumulating the subplane substance, learning to control it, and forming it into structures that have appropriate sensory and operative properties Hence, if we operate at subplanes above our capacity then the vision is of light rather than detailed forms and we have trouble undertaking specific tasks. One thing at a time for this poor small mind on mine... because I would like to experiment. (Does this mean I can't have my usual glass or two of red after work? ) How the heck does one accumulate subplane substance and how do we recognise it? Control it? What structures - with sensory and operative properties? Not even sure what this bit means. How can we operate at levels above out capacity? I can get the Sound and Light show going, but it is all rather abstract for me. My very occasional mystical type experiences come unbidden. I can usually get to the inner universe stage with the occasional super nova - is that part of the ladder or something different? Maat
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Post by hollandr on Apr 1, 2008 1:00:30 GMT
>How the heck does one accumulate subplane substance
Of course we have a range of subplane matter when we incarnate and we may add to it and lose it during the life
There are 3 ways that I have seen for accumulation:
- Regular activities using the matter of a subplane will tend accumulate substance. For example an upright lifestyle will tend to accumulate higher vibrational substance that supports virtues. This is the usual method and takes lifetimes. Equally a vice-based (vicious) lifestyle will accrue denser subplane material
- Spiritual activities including prayer and meditation will tend to accumulate higher substance faster. An active focus on a particular subplane allows much faster progress
- Substance may be given (or taken). This is instinctively known in our culture with comments like "I gave my heart to him" or "when he left he took part of me with him" The transfer of substance (particularly heart substance) may be triggered by higher intelligences. During love making the energetic interactions may facilitate both proper and improper transfers of substance. Improper transfers must eventually be restored to gain full psychological and spiritual health
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Post by hollandr on Apr 1, 2008 1:26:52 GMT
>how do we recognise it?
Some recognition is instinctive. Most people have met people who are "slimy". That is a direct recognition of lower subplane matter being used to establish and maintain improper connections
If you know someone who always makes you feel better just to see or talk to them, that also is a recognition of higher subplane substance
On a more technical level we may wish to measure or manage substance on particular subplanes.
I learned how to do this because I was taught a numerical form of rising on the planes. While my preferred approach to spiritual technology is quantitative that is not the only way. I know some who can undertake technical tasks without technical knowledge. I suspect that they (instinctively?) use other beings who are familiar with the technical issues. Thus they prefer relationship over understanding. Of course even with a technical approach there is a need for relationship.
And there is some aspect of both technical and relationship issues in early Masonry. "Many Masonic rituals require the candidate to be 'tried by the four elements' " (Early Ritual of the Holy Royal Arch by Piers A Vaughan)
To identify subplane substance quantitatively requires that the observer has some minimum substance and controllable senses on the levels being observed. This is most efficiently developed through regular practice of rising on the planes.
Technical abilities may also be gifted but that is rare and there are significant preconditions
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Post by hollandr on Apr 1, 2008 1:40:28 GMT
>Control it?
There are perhaps 3 stages of control:
- moving substance when it acquiesces (including use of visualisation and intent) - controlling substance accurately within the natural law - mastering substance transcending the natural law within which it exists
I am not sure of the preconditions for mastery of substance
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Post by hollandr on Apr 1, 2008 1:49:07 GMT
>What structures - with sensory and operative properties?
No doubt you have played the game of building up some etheric energy in your hands and then pushing them together feeling the elastic resistance.
That etheric substance could also be elongated by intent and visualisation to touch some more distant object thereby being an organ for the sense of touch. That organ with a little practice would be able to perceive light and dark where it was touching and thereby develop some elementary sight capacity.
In the same way, on every subplane on which we wish to be active we accumulate substance and form it into organs for sensing and acting.
Of course mostly we do not wish to operate on dense subplanes and progressively discharge that substance
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Post by hollandr on Apr 1, 2008 1:52:36 GMT
>How can we operate at levels above our capacity?
That can be done by aspiring to higher qualities and determinedly controlling the lower reactions and instincts
Meditation, if with an effective technique/vehicle will also draw us up to higher frequencies. Progressive exposure to higher frequencies will lead to accumulation of substance and development of operative capacity
And of course most of us have experienced some sort of transcendent consciousness from time to time.
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Post by hollandr on Apr 1, 2008 2:02:46 GMT
>I can usually get to the inner universe stage with the occasional super nova - is that part of the ladder or something different?
Commonly the first experience of a higher level is light with little differentiation.
As we develop our sight on that level we may see varied colours and later shapes and later see beings.
If we have gone way past our usual levels of awareness we may see only darkness and hear only silence - the light and sound being of too high a frequency for us to record.
For example a being of particularly high vibration may be seen as dark outlined with light as its aura drops in frequency to where we can see it. This may be symbolised in Masonic regalia by black with white edging and in mythical imagery by a black unicorn outlined in white or gold. (cue Philip?)
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Tamrin
Member
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Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Apr 1, 2008 6:50:30 GMT
This may be symbolised in Masonic regalia by black with white edging and in mythical imagery by a black unicorn outlined in white or gold. (cue Philip?) OK: Readers may not know that Russell claims to have ridden a unicorn over (sorry, 'around') the North Pole. Presumably without the comfort of arctic clothing and getting back in time for tea and scones
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