|
Post by billmcelligott on Jul 8, 2008 3:27:29 GMT
David sorry but if you have deleted it we cant see it any more.
Send me a PM describe it and I will try and see what has happened.
|
|
|
Post by penfold on Jul 8, 2008 8:22:31 GMT
David, you should have recieved a message from me saying that I had edited your last post, the you tube link you embedded in the message didn't work and was squewing the formatting of the page so it got chopped.
|
|
|
Post by parisfred on Jul 8, 2008 13:20:06 GMT
Congratulations to the brothers of Vulcan Lodge ! ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by clermontfreemason on Jul 8, 2008 17:43:24 GMT
Thanks you seem to be the only who cares......
|
|
imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
|
Post by imakegarb on Jul 8, 2008 20:01:56 GMT
(little wince)
It's not for lack of caring. There's just some very, very, veeeeeeeeery ugly history that, really and truly, needs to be lived down. That history, along with a certain inattention to accepted Masonic protocol, keeps quite a few folks quiet and not a little skeptical. You've, unfortunately, stumbled into the middle of that, though it's much quieter here than elsewhere.
It's no reflection on your, or your Lodge.
Many congrats to you. I hope it all goes well.
|
|
|
Post by lauderdale on Jul 8, 2008 22:39:29 GMT
Bro David, having had a look at your Lodge's website I, as an individual Freemason, wish you well.
I presume Vulcan Lodge has seceded from whatever body it previously belonged to, GL of Alabama? , and now is part of the Grand Orient of the USA?
|
|
|
Post by clermontfreemason on Jul 9, 2008 0:38:07 GMT
Vulcan was started fresh as an independent Lodge. Two founding members of Vulcan demitted from the GL of AL first and then started Vulcan.
|
|
|
Post by lauderdale on Jul 9, 2008 10:11:16 GMT
Thanks Bro David. My personal best wishes to you all. I hope it works out.
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Jul 9, 2008 13:04:36 GMT
It's great to see brothers coming together in this way so best of good old Irish luck to all concerned.
|
|
|
Post by penfold on Jul 9, 2008 13:29:45 GMT
Thanks you seem to be the only who cares...... Does that help? ;D On a more practical note, to avoid diverting this thread much further I have entered a thread on the blog links section for Vulcan's blogspot on your behalf, there is no reply function there so I have also created a thread in the General section to allow members to add their comments to those that I have copied from here. See? Do care really, just typical British reserve at play....
|
|
imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
|
Post by imakegarb on Oct 9, 2008 5:18:15 GMT
I'm inclined to think the most appropriate place for the GOdF and GOUSA to post such a joint statement would be on their own websites and then we could link to them.
Truly, Masonic Forum of Light is open to all Freemasons for free and open discussion. However, I don't think MFOL is the best location for an announcement of this nature.
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Oct 9, 2008 6:33:47 GMT
I'm inclined to think the most appropriate place for the GOdF and GOUSA to post such a joint statement would be on their own websites and then we could link to them. Truly, Masonic Forum of Light is open to all Freemasons for free and open discussion. However, I don't think MFOL is the best location for an announcement of this nature. Yes agreed. Also the lack of anything other than what's been posted on forums, and without anything official from both sides (jointly) does little to dispel suggestions to the contrary.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Oct 9, 2008 10:36:21 GMT
We have to take most of these things at face value. I don't see any profit to anyone not to do so.
If it is some kind of scam or miss information, it certainly does not affect me or my Lodge or my Grand Lodge.
While I am interested in what GOdF does and says, its their business, what they do and say.
My only concern is the ingress of one obedience into the sovereignty of another. While geographic sovereignty does have a smack of imperialism about it, it works.
You see I would never propose that UGLE create a Lodge or indeed an affinity with a Lodge in a part of the world where there is already a main stream Masonic Grand Lodge. It is this that keeps the respect between the Grand Lodges and creates Universal Harmony. Like I said, it is most certainly not perfect, but a free-for all would be far worse.
|
|
|
Post by parisfred on Oct 9, 2008 12:46:22 GMT
ok let's go... the treaty was signed in june 2008, I was there and I saw the two GM signing the document (...then you'll have to believe me) all the story of this friendship is told in Humanisme the official magazine of the GODF of June. It's a treaty of amity and recognition between two sovereign grand orient. But there is also patent or charter issued to work two rituals : Modern and AASR. GO USA will use other rituals as a GO usually do, and of course they are free of doing so. An interview of the GM of the GO USA is also published in the last issue of Humanisme magazine ( september). the GO USA is an American sovereign organization and it can create lodges where they want : for example they have lodge in Greece and a triangle in Paris. The GodF have lodges in the USA, in canada also in the UK. My opinion is that the real number of freemasons ( active individual members ) are under 1 millions and we are 6 billions 700 millions on this earth. It clearly shows that we don't have to bother about territorial limitation, none of the existent organization hold the "masonic truth". None of them ! they are human organization... Freemasonry don't belong to a country, a gender a race or a religion It's only proved Tradition is... Evolution. about the territorial limitation : It's okay for me to share the same masonic hall with spanish, English or American lodges and I prefer to share it with them than sell the building. It's only when I visit a foreign lodges, when i share the work with brethren from abroad that I really understand my own culture but also the universality of freemasonry. Fraternally,
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Oct 9, 2008 13:28:42 GMT
ok let's go... The GodF have lodges in the USA, in canada also in the UK. OK Fred but that is exactly why those MS GL's will never take part in any recognition. Now GOdF have every right to do what they wish, what they can not do is complain if others do not agree. Yes agreed, Then how do you stop all GL's from opening Lodges in all areas as and when they wish to do so. In my opinion [and I don't count for much] some criteria is better than none. Let us compare to say selling Cars, if we had a Citroen dealer in every city in the world and I wanted to open a Citroen dealership next door to your one, would that be a good idea or would we both trying to grab the few customers that walk by ? So taking your figures what is important to spread Freemasonry or to see a variety of GL campaigning to attract members where the existing GL is struggling to maintain its membership. What is the Masonic thing to do, charge ahaead with establishing New Lodges under the umbrella of the GOdF or to help the existing GL to hold its existing membership. It is in this question I believe the answer will be revealed. If I read an article where, as you say does not matter which obedience, the GOdF assisted the Local MS Lodge in attracting members that would indeed be Freemasonry Universal. It is a matter of who demonstrates 'Freemasonry Universal', not just demanding or just doing what it sees as in its own interest, whether that be UGLE or GOdF or any other GL. OK, universality of Freemasonry, my argument is simple, GOdF can have whatever laws and infrastructure it wishes to have , I have no wish to make them change any of them, so why am I being told that I or rather my Lodge , my Grand Lodge should change their rules and regulations to accommodate others. We can respect each other without any changes. There are many occasions where Halls, in the UK, are used by non recognised Masonic Groups here also, there is mutual respect and there are no rules that stop other parties hiring the Halls. Why is mutual respect not enough.
|
|
|
Post by parisfred on Oct 9, 2008 14:37:48 GMT
Bill said "Let us compare to say selling Cars, if we had a Citroen dealer in every city in the world and I wanted to open a Citroen dealership next door to your one, would that be a good idea or would we both trying to grab the few customers that walk by ? "
Ok but if the car sellers that open near the Citroen dealer is not selling Citroen but car with options not proposed by Citroen ? Of course they will attract other peoples and surely they will help Citroen to improve their cars. Imagine that a GO of UK is launched in UK you can be sure that the UGLE members won't rush in but it will attract new candidates.
isn't it better to have several organizations than one big which must fit all?
I, personally, prefer that UGLE with it's traditions stay the same organization that we know today, it's another masonic path than the GO's one but it have his own virtue.
When masons and non masons will understand that they have choice they'll stop to ask for change in UGLE or in GOdF and goes directly to an organization that fit the values that they hold.
You will never read a GO brother asking for a change in the UGLE and a UGLE about the GO. Why ? Because they both are sure of being legitimate and sovereign.
.'.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Oct 9, 2008 16:46:52 GMT
Exactly, we are not selling the same car, so we can respect each other.
But we can have healthy competition.
However I would not invite you to our sales meetings.
|
|
imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
|
Post by imakegarb on Oct 9, 2008 19:50:32 GMT
Bro. Bill, geographical sovereignty never actually exist and the idea was totally blown when US MS lodges, and UGLE, started recognizing some PH Obediences. It's a proven red herring. But its' fun to watch
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Oct 9, 2008 20:47:19 GMT
OK show me a PH Lodge recognised by UGLE that has not had the consent of the MS GL then.
See what your saying is UGLE says one thing but does another, now why would anyone want to be recognised by such a group. With no morals and no scruples.
|
|
|
Post by penfold on Oct 9, 2008 23:35:50 GMT
Brother A, the GOUSA is a masonic GL - please take a re-read of the forum rules regarding postings about GL's and respect.
|
|