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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 15, 2008 6:54:33 GMT
.... Jeff Peace was the same he spent more time complaining than creating his Masonic Utopia. When he stopped complaining and concentrated on his dream we ended up with GOUSA. I said the same to him, so maybe GOUSA is all my fault. Jeff is one of the nicest people I know, but on these Forum he is a pain in the aspidistra. You may have noted he is strangely quiet. Maybe because he is banned from some but he could find a way in if he wanted to. However, I suspect he has been oficially requested by the GM/GS of GOUSA to refrain from his usual disruptive activity. It will be interesting to see what the courts decide in Ohio concerning the official (GLoOH) Halycon Lodge that was hijacked by him or so it seems. This matter has the potential to be a future embarrassment to the GOUSA. I think you may well be right. I have sympathy for Jeff, his passion for Freemasonry does get him in hot water. His heart is in the right place though. I say this because I do believe he wants nothing for himself. I know a lot of mainstream Masons who do want a lot for themselves. [not me of course]
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Post by leonardo on Oct 15, 2008 7:13:22 GMT
However, I suspect he has been oficially requested by the GM/GS of GOUSA to refrain from his usual disruptive activity. It will be interesting to see what the courts decide in Ohio concerning the official (GLoOH) Halycon Lodge that was hijacked by him or so it seems. This matter has the potential to be a future embarrassment to the GOUSA. I think you may well be right. I have sympathy for Jeff, his passion for Freemasonry does get him in hot water. His heart is in the right place though. I say this because I do believe he wants nothing for himself. I know a lot of mainstream Masons who do want a lot for themselves. [not me of course] Bro. Jeff was very helpful to me in my earlier days so I have a lot of respect and admiration for him. He has made a stance for the Masonry he believes in and time will provide answers as to whether or not it will work. I hope it does and wish him well in this endeavour.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Oct 15, 2008 7:24:15 GMT
Yes, met him too and his 'boss'. I would anticipate Northampton will also give notice on November 12 at the SGCE meeting that he will also step down as Pro First Grand Principal - www.grandchapter.org.uk/sgc/whos-who.htmI'm one of those who hopes he gets the top job when the Duke of Kent steps down. It would be wonderful to see that position be operative again
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 15, 2008 7:30:56 GMT
Bro Philip. Thank you for sharing some of your Masonic history with us, it's always helpful to have a clearer perspective on an individual. You have been through a lot for your beliefs and one of the many things that stand out is that you're a man of great principles. Thank you for your kind words.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 15, 2008 8:06:59 GMT
.... 2. I am an unattached mason in possession of a clearance certificate from a mainstream lodge, having resigned in good standing after being officially asked to consider doing so or being quiet about women and freemasonry. I thereby represent one fate which may befall conscientious dissenters on the issue. If, unfortunately, your differences be of such a nature as not to be so easily adjusted, it were better one or both of you retire, than the harmony of the Lodge should be disturbed by your presence.As stated, having been asked by my GL (not by my Lodge, Chapter, etc., etc., with whom I sat in harmony) to consider being silent or resigning, I chose the latter.
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Post by lauderdale on Oct 15, 2008 9:10:16 GMT
"Now I know the GLoS have OES but that is not considered to be imitative of Craft Masonry. "
Why then does UGLE ban its members from being Involved with OES whereas the GL of Scotland has very amicable relations with OES?
As to whether UGLE ever allows Intervisitation with LDH , as I have said I doubt I will see this in my lifetime, (I'm 55) , Then again I thought that the Blacks would never rule in South Africa and that the Berlin Wall and Iron Curtain would last me out yet both Apartheid and the Soviet Union are but history these days.
As the benefits? The widening of Masonic Knowledge. As an analogy I am old enough to remember when Roman Catholics had to seek the permission of their Priest to attend Protestant Services even Marriages and Funerals. This proscription was abolished in the 1970s as part of Vatican II and both knowledge of other religions and relationships have improved since members of the various Christian Churches have been able to intervisit.
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 15, 2008 9:49:02 GMT
Yes I was admin on Stephen Dafoe's Forum when Jeff came on as a Mod there, that must be about 8 years ago. I think he was still with his Mainstream GL then. He was a very active and dedicated GL officer, I believe.
I have to call things as I see them. I try not to let my opposing views cloud my judgement of the person. There is never a time when all the good guys are on your side and all the bad guys are on the other side.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 15, 2008 10:05:02 GMT
As stated, having been asked by my GL (not by my Lodge, Chapter, etc., etc., with whom I sat in harmony) to consider being silent or resigning, I chose the latter. How long were you actually a member of the lodge (a Mason) and what year did you resign your membership?From someone so coy that we have yet to receive a direct answer to less specific questions put to you, I am bemused by your presumption. Even so, I am happy to answer: About a quarter of a century. I joined 25 January 1978 ( Lodge Thistle Kilwinning, No. 54, UGL NSW & ACT) and remained a member until 26 November 2003 (I remain a Mason, albeit, unattached). The delay in my resignation, after receipt of the Grand Registrar's letter, was due to awaiting the outcome of a report on the subject of women and Freemasonry, (to which I had contributed and from an abstract of which I thought had been reactionary) and then awaiting the discharge of certain offices I held in different Orders. It does seem from the information you posted that to retain your membership was incompatible with your personal points of view and it was these matters outside of Masonry that were at conflict with the Craft. I presume you are referring to my conscience, which I do not regard as being outside of Masonry.
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Post by lauderdale on Oct 15, 2008 11:07:28 GMT
I find myself agreeing with Tamrin on this point, that he is still a Mason and has never ceased to be one, whatever his relationship may be with his former Grand Lodge.
As one is made a Mason in one's heart then only the individual can renounce Freemasonry and abjure that status, so Tamrin (Philip Carter) became a Mason in 1978 and remains one to this day, albeit unattached.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 15, 2008 11:15:02 GMT
Thank you Steve.
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Post by corab on Oct 15, 2008 11:57:20 GMT
As stated, having been asked by my GL (not by my Lodge, Chapter, etc., etc., with whom I sat in harmony) to consider being silent or resigning, I chose the latter. How long were you actually a member of the lodge (a Mason) and what year did you resign your membership? Good grief, you have some nerve to be asking Tamrin that when you have yet to declare your masonic antecedents. Unbelievable.
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Post by corab on Oct 15, 2008 11:58:44 GMT
I find myself agreeing with Tamrin on this point, that he is still a Mason and has never ceased to be one, whatever his relationship may be with his former Grand Lodge. Likewise. What the TGAOTU made cannot be unmade by man.
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Post by lauderdale on Oct 15, 2008 12:20:24 GMT
I reckon Architekt is an UGLE Grand Officer possible a Grand Chapter Officer in their HRA, he might even be a "Chain" as he has been a member long enough to have got to that rank.
I too cannot understand his diffidence as to declaring his Affiliation, but can respect his using a Nom de Plume as many do on this and other Fora
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 15, 2008 12:31:56 GMT
I would dare to suggest that architect is referring to the technical issue which states, that you may not be a member of UGLE or in this case UGL NSW, if you have an affiliation with an other masonic body that is not recognised or is involved in issues not permitted under the BOC. Until Tamrin answers he would not know.
I am sure architect will expand if he wishes.
architect is asking a perfectly reasonable question, Tamrin may or may not answer, whichever he chooses, there is nothing in this forum's rules that says you must reveal everything about yourself. But there is absolutely no reason why architect should not ask.
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Post by maximus on Oct 15, 2008 12:53:24 GMT
How long were you actually a member of the lodge (a Mason) and what year did you resign your membership? From someone so coy that we have yet to receive a direct answer to less specific questions put to you, I am bemused by your presumption. Yes, we are still waiting. I gave you mine on another thread: I did not realize Themelites regarded themselves as Freemasons. What does this mean exactly? I was Initiated, Passed, and Raised in a Mainstream F&AM lodge (Sam Davis Lodge #661) under the Grand Lodge of Tennessee. Bro. Philip has given you his, and you have been asked directly twice, by Bro. Cora what Jurisdiction you are a member of. BTW, you ignored my question in the above quote and moved on with Crowley debunking without answering.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 15, 2008 13:30:24 GMT
I would dare to suggest that architect is referring to the technical issue which states, that you may not be a member of UGLE or in this case UGL NSW, if you have an affiliation with an other masonic body that is not recognised or is involved in issues not permitted under the BOC. Until Tamrin answers he would not know. I have not yet joined any other masonic body.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 15, 2008 13:32:55 GMT
Likewise. What the TGAOTU made cannot be unmade by man. Thank you Cora.
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Post by maximus on Oct 15, 2008 14:30:11 GMT
architect is asking a perfectly reasonable question, Tamrin may or may not answer, whichever he chooses, there is nothing in this forum's rules that says you must reveal everything about yourself. But there is absolutely no reason why architect should not ask. Tamrin did answer. If one demands of others, then it is reasonable to be asked in return, and polite to answer. To repeatedly ignore such requests leaves questions in other's minds.
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 15, 2008 16:25:39 GMT
Please Maximus, assume I have done my homework before I hit the keyboard.
OK , what architect actually said was
Tamrin went on to volunteer his CV.
architect asked the question:
When you examine the line:
He is saying here, unless I read this wrong, you did not have to resign, unless you wanted to. You resigned not from breaking the rules but as a matter of conscience.
Seems reasonable to me.
The point is no one here should be badgered into revealing their personal information.
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 15, 2008 16:30:09 GMT
I would dare to suggest that architect is referring to the technical issue which states, that you may not be a member of UGLE or in this case UGL NSW, if you have an affiliation with an other masonic body that is not recognised or is involved in issues not permitted under the BOC. Until Tamrin answers he would not know. I have not yet joined any other masonic body. Please do not read me wrong, I consider any person who has undergone the initiatic process in Freemasonry a Freemason. Which order you belong to is a matter for you. For example you may resign your Lodge and return 20 years later to the same Lodge or another Lodge in the same GL. you do not have to be initiated again. I have accepted what you said , you are an unattached Freemason.
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